describe your car on the track |
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llatsni
Really Senior Member II work in progress Joined: 22-February-2005 Location: dublinia Status: Offline Points: 963 |
Topic: describe your car on the track Posted: 18-October-2005 at 04:26 |
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Post mondello I thought it might be interesting to hear peoples opinions of their own cars out on the track. Apart from being decent reading it might actually help someone choose their next daily/track car.
We should probably have some standard areas to comment on, but do mention anything worth noting: Car: '98 e36 316i saloon, m43 engine Mods/setup: lowering springs (eibach pro kit), 17" BBS alloys, brembo max discs with ebc green stuff pads, Falken tyres... thats about it Braking: Bloody AMAZING when warmed up outbraking plenty of people on the corners Handling: tendancy to understeer, with the rear end being a bit ambiguous. Sits very flat with the lowering springs but rear end can be a bit bouncy under hard braking while turning (sometimes unavoidable) Power: Very very underpowered, was overcooking it into corners in an effort to maintain momentum, and when apexing was left seriously wanting. In contrast my mates comments were that the 318IS was the "lowest" powered car that had usable grunt thru the corners. The 1-6 is 40 bhp shy of even that! I was taking some higher powered cars but mainly thru holding the right line and braking very late and hard. Anyhow... now to find that missing 200bhp. Paul |
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1996 e34 525i SE Touring [uberwagon!]
1992 e36 325i Coupe [track car] 1998 e36 316i SE Saloon [sold... but missed] |
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b318isp
Moderator Group Joined: 10-October-2002 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2057 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 04:35 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: '90 e30 318is, m42 engine
Mods/setup: H&K springs, Billy dampers, LSD, ebc green stuff pads, B/Stone S03 205/55/15 tyres... Braking: Once again, fade free session. Raising brake pedal helped feel a lot. No problems - lots of confidence in braking late once tyres were warm. Handling: Very happy with this. I bit too much understeer at turn 1 but fine after that. Turn in is superb and can tracked very well around corners. Rear end very stable once warmed up. Power oversteer a little snatchy but could get to power down easy enough. Overall, the car was very responsive. Power: Always need more, but it never really bothers me as the car is very adjustable with the pedals. Would prefer more to help exiting of corners (TJ style!) but for half the session I used 3rd and 4th only as I prefer corners rather than straights! Overall, I was delighted with the car - it was quick under braking and cornering. It was fluid, adjustable, controlable and very well balanced. |
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Dergside
Really Senior Member II Joined: 16-May-2004 Location: Mid West, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 4000 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 04:45 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: '93 e36 325i coupe, m50 engine Handling: First run with road pressures was fine but a little understeer. Changed to 35/32 (FR) and that helped the balance. Utterly predictable (contrast to e30 last year). Very pleased! For a bog standard setup I was more than pleased with the go and composure, even if not pushing it too hard! |
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Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.
Prev: e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci. e39 523i SE. e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE. e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i. |
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T.J.
Bavarian-Board Contributor Joined: 22-September-2003 Location: Cork, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2332 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 05:18 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: 1995 E36 328i Coupe Mods/Setup: Factory fit LSD. 17x8" alloys with 215/45 Avon ZZ1s running 36PSI warmed up (16k on tyres and alot of abuse on them - rears just about non-legal going into Mondello, fronts another 3-4k left in them). AC Schnitzer Fast Road suspension setup. Braking: DOT5.1 brake fluid. Pagid Fast Road pads all round. 328i has vented discs on rear as standard which aids cooling. No problems with brakes. ABS kicking in a little early when brakes are really hot, but not an issue overall. I'll upgrade to Zimmerman grooved discs over the winter. Handling: Neutral. Tyres very, very hardwearing; this means a lack of ultimate grip but they were immune to all trackday antics, only showing a light feathering on the passenger front - amazing considering! Initial touch of understeer on turn-in and steady throttle (due to LSD and tyres). Once approaching apex, hit the power and adjust the line from there completely on the diff. Every bend is exited with a qtr turn of opp-lock and the rear really hooking up. Softly sprung but iron damping meant little roll (just enough to have an idea when it's loaded to the point of sliding). In summary incredible balance front to rear on track, and completely adjustable / exploitable thanks to LSD. I love it!! And it has transformed the car over the original setup. The difference is even more shocking on the road where corners that had the old setup skipping and jumping are taken level and approx 10mph quicker with the ACS kit. I would not drive another (non-M) BMW without putting ACS kit on it, period. Power: Enough to exploit the handling of the car with it's current setup. However the top end (5,500rpm onward) is lacking if I'm being picky. It needs to breath better up there, and am considering the M50 manifold conversion to sort this - must pick Ludos brains as he's alot done to his 2.8. Plenty of torque to get the tail moving. Other than that, you don't feel hard done by the power in it (unless you've been taken .. again!... by IanH and his 330Ci ), and it can keep with most cars in Mondello as it ain't a big power circuit.
Edited by T.J. |
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kbannon
Admin Group E39 525i Sport Individual Joined: 09-October-2002 Location: 64 Zoo Lane Status: Offline Points: 15508 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 05:30 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: '97 523i M52 lump
Mods: BMW aero kit (gives me loadza downforce bud!). On 17" E34 wheels bored to match the E39 hub. Rear rims may not be the best width for the tyres. Nankang fronts (which were very good!). Rear tyres had little tread left at the start. OEM discs and pads. Handling: Very surprised at the handling of the car, given the rear tyres which were possibly toio wide for the rims. Also my ASC is down so I had was on my own. Very little understeer (as usual) and the car frequently thought about stepping out (especially on turn two which was done in 3rd and foot right down) but offered enough time to stop it. The tyres performed very well despite having low tread level and they should withstand another event (or two) as long as there is no rain! No brake fade or other braking problems. If I stood on the brake, it stopped! I found I could use very short braking distances compared to the last day (mainly because the last day I was on my road tyres and didn't want to shred them). Power: I found that it was occasionally slow to regain proper momentum out of some of the corners but a few extra bhp might sort that out. Between now and the next date I plan on doing the manifold, throttle body and chip mods to her. In one session I actually found I couldn't pass the 316i which was quicker out of the corners and whenever I was ready to overtake, it wasn't a suitable location/moment. Next time Paul! The car stayed between 2nd and 4th all day with no need for 5th. I had problems mid way in the esses trying to get up into 3rd but I think this was to do with the way I was leaning more than anything and I was catching the divider between 1st and 3rd. I must learn how to drive! The car also feels as if it has too much body roll, something which I must look into. Edited by kbannon |
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Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor
Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
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///M3Mick
Really Senior Member I Joined: 12-August-2005 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 457 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 06:16 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: 2003 E46 M3 coupe Handling: Despite the M3’s reputation as tail happy I found there was a tendancy to understeer, particularly on turn 1 (is it Honda?). Having said that, being as it was my first track day, I was probably carrying too much speed into some of the corners, and despite the urging of certain individuals I didn’t turn off the DSC all day. I will wait until I am more sure of myself before doing so. When I got my entry speeds right, it was beautiful, remaining taut and level, and very satisfying when I finally nailed the double apex bend. Power: More than enough. This engine revs and revs and you really can take it to the redline. I barely got into 4th all day (for example on the main straight if I nailed it out of Dunlop in 2nd, was hitting 100-110 at the bridge just as I would change into 4th but at that point you are just about to mash the brakes for turn 1). Was surprised when Paul told me on the paxlaps that I was hitting 80-90 coming up to the 50 meter marker before Dunlop. Mick |
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Eamo
Moderator Group Joined: 13-May-2003 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 3450 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 06:38 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: 1989 E30 M3 Cecotto
Mods/Setup: Factory fit EDC (Electronic Damper Control) with 3 settings Komfort, Normal, Sport. 16" Standard alloys with 225/45/16 B/Stone S03’s running 32 PSI. Supersprint Exhaust System. 3.64 diff instead of original 3.25 Braking: DOT5.1 brake fluid. Pagid Orange pads on front. OEM disks all round. Braided brake hoses. Uprated Caliper pins on front calipers to give squarer pad contact on disk. No problems with brakes, actually very happy with setup however front left wheel did lock up once going into Stena. Need to check ABS. Handling: Very good considering I was running only 32psi. I was expecting rain and for the weather to be a little cooler so used 32psi all round. Should have bumped PSI up to near 40. As a result experienced understeer at Honda and Dunlop. Tyres very, very hardwearing and sticky giving loads of grip – actually very impressed with grip and wear after 2 track days, trip to Germany and a few laps around the Ring. EDC Suspension really came into its own on track. Started off in Normal just to see what handling was like. It handled well but I knew it could do way better. Stuck it into Sport mode for the rest of the day which made a huge difference. This stiffened the dampers all round and also adjusted the bump and rebound (doesn’t lower the car!). Car was very very grippy. Found that if I carried a little bit of braking into some corners, the front of the car sat down and I could take the corner harder and come out faster. Prefer this setup over previous factory setup in my old evo2. Power: Probably could do with 20bhp extra (who wouldn’t!) over my dyno’ed 215bhp to give the bigger M’s a run for their money on the straight. Performed excellent in the short twisty stuff but felt underpowered on the straight. Upgrading the diff to 3.64 also improved acceleration up through the gears. However I did find going into Stena and Dunlop that I had to hold the throttle for a second or two at 7400rpm. If I changed into 4th I would have had to change back down again immediately. Gear changes between 2nd and 3rd were very quick. Had to lay off the power going around the right hand corner coming out of Stena and before Dunlop as I found that this spot was very greasy and didn’t have much traction. Edited by Eamo |
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Kin Mak
Bavarian-Board Contributor Joined: 09-April-2005 Location: Dublin, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1691 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 07:00 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: 1999 E39 M5, S62 engine
Mods/Setup: Rogue SSK, Rogue tranny mounts, Axxis Ultimate brake pads, Motul RBF 600 brake fluid, StopTech stainless steel brake lines, Active Autowerke CAI(brake cooling & induction). Tyres 41psi/39psi warm. Braking: Much better than I expected for such a heavy car, not much fade. I am sure the brake cooling helped loads. Truth be told i never did pound the brakes that hard. Handling: First few session I had DSC on, in fact most of the sessions I did, this pretty much disabled my ablity to control the car with the throttle. With it off everything is very controlable for such a big car. Unsteer all day, but that is cuz inablity to brake enough and turning in too early. Power: Ermm, I think I have enough. Just need to be in the right gear. Edited by Kin Mak |
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llatsni
Really Senior Member II work in progress Joined: 22-February-2005 Location: dublinia Status: Offline Points: 963 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 07:31 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
@b318isp - saw you 'enjoying' your LSD a few times, had heard they increased understeer on a track like mondello, but both you and TJ seem to say the opposite which is good news!
@Dergside - damn, missed checking your car out, would have loved a shotgun lap or two, as i'm dreaming of making a 325 track car. @T.J. - the car is a beast (or is it the driver???), definitely held your own against the m3's. @kbannon - I wasnt about to slow down to let you past, I needed every bit of momentum available, reckon you could've taken me if you'd hurled it into the corners a bit more :) @///M3Mick - your car is sweet, and your driving v impressive for someone on their 1st track day in a recently purchased car! The power (braking & accelerating) was amazing, but there was definitely more there - much more! @Eamo - that car is exquisite... a true keeper. @Kin Mak - amazing torque in that yoke, i bet you were the only one powering out of dunlop in 3rd gear, a much improved driver by the last session too, next time you'll be hammering the puny m3's |
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1996 e34 525i SE Touring [uberwagon!]
1992 e36 325i Coupe [track car] 1998 e36 316i SE Saloon [sold... but missed] |
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kdevitt
Really Senior Member II Joined: 27-February-2003 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 904 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 07:44 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: 2000 E46 328ci, M52TU
Mods/Setup: Eibachs...standard otherwise Braking: Fantastic - no problems with fade at all, unlike my E36 320i experienced. Handling: Left traction control on all day. So had trouble powering out of some corners at it kicked in, but would rather that than stacking the car against a barrier. Tyres got very ropey near the end though, so I was glad I called it a day when I did. Power: Was fine - should have been shifting down to second on one or two or the bends, but the car still pulled in third so I got lazy. Probably should have gone out in the second group though, got frustrated being stuck behind others who wouldn't pull over (given that the car if front is meant to signal for you to overtake rather than you just going for it) , and in most sessions I had to ease off because there was traffic in front of me. Lesson learnt I suppose... Edited by kdevitt |
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Fey!
Bavarian-Board Contributor Funs over, Scotty; beam down my clothes! Joined: 28-February-2005 Location: Galway Status: Offline Points: 4161 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 08:12 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Car: 1998 e39 520iM52 Saloon ECE Mods: Mechanics of the car are all still standard, but work in the last 2 weeks included 3 repalacement rollover coils, 2 new rear brake pipes, brake system flush, 17" ACS Type3 wheels with rear Falken 255/40/17ZE512 and front Falken 235/45/17ZE512 tyres, ACS sideskirts, ACS boot spoiler, ACS roof spoiler, Inspection 2, Oil service. Power: Could have done with more, and found flat spots coming out of Honda and Turn 3. A bit of experimentation in the earlier sessions (with no-one else near me, of course!) found that if I dropped from 3rd to 2nd exiting the corner, the car kicked nicely into line for exiting the corner. Exiting turn 3 in 3rd had no power; in 2nd it took a second to kick in. 3rd through the esses worked fine - 2nd didn't feel as secure on the track. Handling: Had a moment with 2 wheels in the grass coming out of Honda, but that was about all of the off road excursions this time out! Don't know what under/oversteer is, but found it took the corners well, even if it did feel like a wallowing barge (as noted by Kin on my final outing!). Tended to use the green white kerbs a lot in the last 2 sessions! After Killian showed me the lines, found myself a lot happier coming out of turn 3. Brakes: Very happy with them; put me exactly where I wanted to be every time. Tyres may have had a bit to do with this, too. Tyres: Got very squelchy toward the end, but very happy with them. Checked them last night, and no damage or flat spots on them, and not a lot of wear. Rears at 35psi, fronts at 33psi. Speed/MPG: Using the trip computer, I got 12.5mpg over 5.8 miles, at an average speed of 53.7mph. Only thought to check it on one session (2nd last one). Overall: Very happy with performance/handling. Need to get spare wheels if I'm going to continue doing track days regularly. Also maybe 20mm lowering (can't go any lower due to ramps/inclines at home), exhaust system and chipping to come. Thanks to all my passengers for their commentaries, and Killian for showing me the lines. Edited by Fey! |
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kbannon
Admin Group E39 525i Sport Individual Joined: 09-October-2002 Location: 64 Zoo Lane Status: Offline Points: 15508 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 08:15 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor
Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
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T.J.
Bavarian-Board Contributor Joined: 22-September-2003 Location: Cork, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2332 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 08:27 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
@ llatsni: I've a tiny micky (and wallet!). So I feel compelled to compensate as much as I can on the track. What more can I say? Joking aside (I've a massive massive schlong), the car is set up well and is easy to go quick in. Chatting to Brendan, and the two of us passengering in each others cars to compare, the E36s behaviour beyond its limits is alot more benign than the E30. It's a credit to those out in them who can keep it neat on the limit, as there is a far more noticable and sudden 'step' from grip to slip on the rear. It feels like it gets enough grip to hold it and to play with the tail afterward, but that initial leap of a foot or so needs a bit of courage to step up to. It may even be exxagerated on the 318is over the 325 as the nose is that bit lighter, and the whole car keener to turn in and keep the nose dialled in. The E30 M3s I've been in seem a little more like the E36 in behaviour. Don't know what mods the E30 M3 has over the normal trailing rear axle. On the E36 (1st showing of the 'Z' axle that minimises camber change) you can pick the angle down to a centimetre. Brendan and others in E30s will have more to add, but they were my impressions of the cars. Wheelbase plays a part too - my old 525i was a great bus to chuck around and really forgiving. Edited by T.J. |
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Fey!
Bavarian-Board Contributor Funs over, Scotty; beam down my clothes! Joined: 28-February-2005 Location: Galway Status: Offline Points: 4161 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 08:36 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
@ Killian - computer decided it hadn't posted enough in the last few days, so took over from me itself and self-posted!!!
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mikerd4
Really Senior Member II Joined: 03-November-2004 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 1105 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 16:20 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Pity there where no official times for laps top see what was actually happening. Never thought id see a rear wheel drive car understeer but it was happening. Driving styles varied amazingly, have to say being in with a good driver in a fast car like Ludos was a treat. |
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All about the sounds:- Source:-Alpine 9833R Comps:-Phoenix Gold Ti6 Elites, Sub:- 2 x Focal Polyglass V2, Amps:- Arc Audio XK4150 & Soundstream Van Gogh All in a custom boot build |
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Fey!
Bavarian-Board Contributor Funs over, Scotty; beam down my clothes! Joined: 28-February-2005 Location: Galway Status: Offline Points: 4161 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 16:21 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
As opposed to being in a slow car with a hopeless driver like me!!!
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mikerd4
Really Senior Member II Joined: 03-November-2004 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 1105 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 16:30 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
speed didnt mean much except on the straights, there were slower cars keeping up with e46 M3's! For exa,ple paul felt fast in his 316 as he was really chucking it about but then lost a lot of time in the corners having to brake so hard and late but he was still posting unofficial times ahead of kin in the big 5! Would love to know what the grey 2002 was lapping in! |
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All about the sounds:- Source:-Alpine 9833R Comps:-Phoenix Gold Ti6 Elites, Sub:- 2 x Focal Polyglass V2, Amps:- Arc Audio XK4150 & Soundstream Van Gogh All in a custom boot build |
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kbannon
Admin Group E39 525i Sport Individual Joined: 09-October-2002 Location: 64 Zoo Lane Status: Offline Points: 15508 |
Posted: 18-October-2005 at 18:01 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor
Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
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gjoconnor92
Really Senior Member II The eyes have it Joined: 21-July-2003 Location: Kildare and Limerick, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 735 |
Posted: 19-October-2005 at 02:45 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Mods/setup: spare wheel removed from boot. Tyres Goodyears on front, Kingstar Made in China on rear! Need to experiment more with tyre pressures Fantasy Limited Slip diff |
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Gerard O'Connor
1989 E30 320i for track day use 1972 2002 competition car project (delayed!!) Sheane Formula Vee My e-mail |
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T.J.
Bavarian-Board Contributor Joined: 22-September-2003 Location: Cork, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2332 |
Posted: 19-October-2005 at 03:38 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
I did take some times for my first session out just to get a datum against the old 525i. Taken from passing under bridge.
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