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Nigel View Drop Down
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Points: 6941 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Penalty points
    Posted: 08-February-2006 at 18:28

The public ignore them, insurance companies ignore them (in my experience), and now magistrates ignore them lol

http://www.itvregions.com/Granada/News/Driver+keeps+licence+ despite+31+penalty+points.htm
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Nigel

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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 04:27

This case is quite shocking. He should have been banned. How about taking responsibillity for your actions. Ok 3 or 6 points is unlucky, 9 is careless and 12 is just stupid but 31 is bordering on the insane.

Mind you if penalty points weren't handed out with such gay abandon then they might be taken more seriously. When a huge proportion of the driving population have at least 3 points it becomes the norm and no longer socially unacceptable. Insurance companies ingonore them because they obvioulsy see no correlation between 3 points and an increased risk of a claim.

 
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Mike Fishwick View Drop Down
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Points: 63 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:01
Ok - Mr Englander (what an appropriate name!) has lots of points, but he would have a lot less if they were not handed out like confetti.

I remember when points were introduced, the story being that they would only be used for those whose road behaviour had been dangerous to some degree or another.

We now see points being handed out for non-driving offences such as failure to present one's documents, and the threat of licences being withdrawn for non-motoring issues such as failure to comply with maintenance orders from the CSA!

I'm glad I live in France, with a French licence.
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Points: 745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:03
Originally posted by Mike Fishwick Mike Fishwick wrote:

Ok - Mr Englander (what an appropriate name!) has lots of points, but he would have a lot less if they were not handed out like confetti.

I remember when points were introduced, the story being that they would only be used for those whose road behaviour had been dangerous to some degree or another.

We now see points being handed out for non-driving offences such as failure to present one's documents, and the threat of licences being withdrawn for non-motoring issues such as failure to comply with maintenance orders from the CSA!

I'm glad I live in France, with a French licence.


Under the new road safety bill a French licence won't stop you getting points here or disqualified by totting here, should you commit endorseable offences.
My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:13

Originally posted by livvy livvy wrote:

Originally posted by Mike Fishwick Mike Fishwick wrote:

Ok - Mr Englander (what an appropriate name!) has lots of points, but he would have a lot less if they were not handed out like confetti.

I remember when points were introduced, the story being that they would only be used for those whose road behaviour had been dangerous to some degree or another.

We now see points being handed out for non-driving offences such as failure to present one's documents, and the threat of licences being withdrawn for non-motoring issues such as failure to comply with maintenance orders from the CSA!

I'm glad I live in France, with a French licence.


Under the new road safety bill a French licence won't stop you getting points here or disqualified by totting here, should you commit endorseable offences.

There will be no escaping the punitive measures of the state.

 
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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:16

Originally posted by Mike Fishwick Mike Fishwick wrote:

Ok - Mr Englander (what an appropriate name!) has lots of points, but he would have a lot less if they were not handed out like confetti.

I'm not saying that the points were justified but what it shows is that even after getting so many he is still unable to drive in a way that doesn't get him more. He might not have deserved them but he is an idiot.

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Points: 15508 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:17
Originally posted by Mike Fishwick Mike Fishwick wrote:

Ok - Mr Englander (what an appropriate name!) has lots of points, but he would have a lot less if they were not handed out like confetti.

True but to get 31 (or 39!) would require a high level of irresponsibility. You presumably don't have that many because you are careful - he obviously isn't.
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Points: 745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:20
Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

There will be no escaping the punitive measures of the state.



Don't commit the crime of course.
My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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Peter Fenwick View Drop Down
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Points: 6484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:36

Originally posted by livvy livvy wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

There will be no escaping the punitive measures of the state.



Don't commit the crime of course.

If the government made it illegal to use websites like this that talked about speed cameras in a not too positive light, would we deserve punishment for doing so?

 
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Fushion Julz View Drop Down
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Points: 400 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 11:58

Originally posted by livvy livvy wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

There will be no escaping the punitive measures of the state.



Don't commit the crime of course.

Crime?!?

deary me...so now failing to present your documents makes you a criminal...Lock 'em up, sling 'em in the cells with the rapists, I say.

 
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Nigel View Drop Down
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Points: 6941 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:13
Originally posted by Fushion Julz Fushion Julz wrote:

Originally posted by livvy livvy wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

There will be no escaping the punitive measures of the state.



Don't commit the crime of course.

Crime?!?

deary me...so now failing to present your documents makes you a criminal...Lock 'em up, sling 'em in the cells with the rapists, I say.

 

I know Julz, even I think its getting a bit desperate now !
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Points: 745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:14
Originally posted by Fushion Julz Fushion Julz wrote:

Originally posted by livvy livvy wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

There will be no escaping the punitive measures of the state.



Don't commit the crime of course.

Crime?!?

deary me...so now failing to present your documents makes you a criminal...Lock 'em up, sling 'em in the cells with the rapists, I say.

 



Anything that you can be taken before a criminal court for is a crime, including failing to produce your documents. It's nothing new it's been around a long long time.
It may not be the most serious offence, it may not be an imprisonable offence, but it is still a crime.
If I may be so bold as to venture, your reaction is what is over the top (lock 'em up, sling 'rm in the cell with the rapists), not the fact that the offence is regarded as a minor crime.


Edited by livvy
My views expressed are just that.
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Points: 745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:20
Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

Originally posted by livvy livvy wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenwick Peter Fenwick wrote:

There will be no escaping the punitive measures of the state.



Don't commit the crime of course.

If the government made it illegal to use websites like this that talked about speed cameras in a not too positive light, would we deserve punishment for doing so?

 



Peter



I've said before that we voted the government in a we give them the power to introduce laws over us as part of their governance.

Where they do that & it is totally at odds to the general publics view at large they can expect revolution.

I don't see revolution coming over the current proposals with speed limits or ANPR cameras, but it could happen with your website suggestion, so as such I can't see that happening.



My views expressed are just that.
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Fushion Julz View Drop Down
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Points: 400 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:23

And you wonder why people have a disregard for the "law"...Actually, it's worse, because laws like this devalue laws with genuine merit.

People grow up despising the police (for enforcing the meaningless laws) and the government (for creating them). Then they become the lawless in society.

Increasingly, though, those lawless folk are what, in a recent past time, would have been the law-abiding, honest majority.
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Points: 745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:25
Originally posted by Fushion Julz Fushion Julz wrote:

And you wonder why people have a disregard for the "law"...Actually, it's worse, because laws like this devalue laws with genuine merit.

People grow up despising the police (for enforcing the meaningless laws) and the government (for creating them). Then they become the lawless in society.

Increasingly, though, those lawless folk are what, in a recent past time, would have been the law-abiding, honest majority.



So you don't think that people should have to have a driving licence, insurance or MOT etc & have to produce it when required by a Police officer ?

Is that what you are saying ?

Because if we do have to do those things, there will be laws to enforce it & prosecutions where the law isn't complied with.
My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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Points: 1212 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:25
I heard today that first time burglars who are caught don't get custodial sentences, just a caution. So if you want to avoid jail, try a bit of thievery - but make sure the getaway car has all the documents with it.
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livvy View Drop Down
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Points: 745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 12:30
Originally posted by Doive Doive wrote:

I heard today that first time burglars who are caught don't get custodial sentences, just a caution. So if you want to avoid jail, try a bit of thievery - but make sure the getaway car has all the documents with it.


You won't of course go to jail for document offences either. I can't remember a time in my life time that first time burglars would ever get a custodial sentence.
My views expressed are just that.
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whitey View Drop Down
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Points: 450 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 18:28

Originally posted by livvy livvy wrote:

I can't remember a time in my life time that first time burglars would ever get a custodial sentence.

Well they should do.... thieving scum.
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Points: 1212 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-February-2006 at 19:21
Originally posted by whitey whitey wrote:

Well they should do.... thieving scum.

Agreed! If some hood broke into my house, I'd like to think he would be sent to the slammer for a couple of years, not allowed to come back the following night for another go. Now of course, I could avoid seeing him the next night by defending my property and rendering him unconscious - then I'd get to spend the next night in jail! Problem solved.
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Points: 1758 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2006 at 05:55

Originally posted by Doive Doive wrote:

Originally posted by whitey whitey wrote:

Well they should do.... thieving scum.

Agreed! If some hood broke into my house, I'd like to think he would be sent to the slammer for a couple of years, not allowed to come back the following night for another go. Now of course, I could avoid seeing him the next night by defending my property and rendering him unconscious - then I'd get to spend the next night in jail! Problem solved.

 Oh so true Doive . you catch some scumbag "doing " your car & nicking stuff that you have WORKED hard to get  , you knock him out & you are the "criminal " ????????? . Had this some years ago caught " ned " breaking my window to nick my C.D player ( he was in the car gouging it out with a screwdriver ) pulled him out by scruff of the neck & knocked the "Hell " out of him , one of my "Kindly " neighbors saw me do this to a " Young 17 yr old BOY " & called the police . P.C arrived " I've got him for you " i said but was me that got nicked for " common assault " ???????? Had to take day off work ( unpayed ) to go to court & fined £50 . He on the other hand ( who had done this & various other similar stuff )pleaded he was on " unemployment " & was down on his luck !!!!!!! what did he get ? ......... £30 with six months to pay !!!!!!!  British justice eh !



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