value for money of 5 series |
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Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Topic: value for money of 5 series Posted: 17-March-2005 at 17:32 |
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J7 VNK, & Automatix please read the pm's you have regarding your post exchanges in this thread.
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Best Wishes
Nigel |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 17-March-2005 at 16:17 | ||
Although it was by first venture into private buying I did find the car buying a real pleasant experience as you say. I spent nearly a month and half looking at all kinds of models (some 3 series and mostly 5) both from private and trade (a different kind operated from homes but with proper VAT receipts and quite professionally too with the car upto date with all documentation!). This search introduced me to the myriad world of car sale techniques and I must admit I was rather pleased to encounter all this. I met some really decent people in private sale and it is imperative you treat them with respect and it will be reciprocated. All this "dodgy mentality" perpetuated by Autotrader/RAC/AA is simply OTT. No doubt you have to make sure you are getting your money's worth but in my opinion it can be done in a very civil manner by just following sensible protocols like requesting (not demanding) for verifying the car's documentation, persuading the owner to have a condition check done for the car (incidentally I came to know only now that BMW dealers could do one for a very small fee! ), and generally making an offer that is not too ridiculous --- one should bear in mind that the seller is already "stung" because of the depreciation effects of cars. If both seller/buyer have done a bit of homework on the "market value" of the car then the above documentation and check should be adequate to make a deal in which both parties are happy; usually a seller has regrets letting go a much loved car and a buyer has no regrets taking off a much loved car at a depreciated price --- amazing contrast come to think of it!. As I mentioned sometime earlier I had perhaps built up a "walking away fatigue" and hence got stung a bit on the one I eventually purchased although I still like the motor after the "costly" fixes!. Looking back I think I missed out on some real bargains -- a beautiful well maintained P reg 520 with 140k for only £2850 family owned, wasnt quick enough to make up my mind and someone snapped it cash payment ! Another P Reg 90k black/tan leather classy combination and in excellent condition. Again wasnt quick enough in making up my mind and snapped away ! There are wonderful bargains out there and from decent people. We dont need all this non-sense about mistrusting all and sundry, asking for "cold start"/ "hot start", or making unreasonable demands on viewing property rather than the car and so forth (most decent people wont mind showing their property for the really determined nosey buyers!). This idea of demanding to view address is a bit of a nonsense -- not everybody is just sitting at home polishing cars, they have jobs to do which are zillion miles away from home. Sometimes viewing "has" to happen in places other than residence. Car buying can be conducted in a gentlemanly way with mutual respect! For that odd un-gentlemanly seller (or buyer) there is always an option -- just walk away not hastily but politely of course! My main concerns are durability and hence maintainability of high mileage cars which is more to do with the car manufacturer, the fixer ("specialist") and so on and that is why I opened up this thread ! regards, Automatix
Edited by Automatix |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 17-March-2005 at 15:35 | ||
got ya Brucey ! So are we all going to hear tomorrow your supercharged gleaming motor is back on the streets (with a warning for all the elderly to keep off the streets and your neighbours to seal off their front garden ) Wish everyone could fix cars at superspeeds !! Then we could all start with stacking metal bits on wheels, add a combustible couldron under the hood, put a round thingy on a stick, dust off the deck chairs from the attic and place it in front of the round thingy, drill a hole on any side of the metal piece to feed the couldron and generally spruce it up with odd bits and hey presto we wont need dealers/wheelers/stealers at all and the world will be a completely different place ! Such is life that the "real" world is rather complicated! I am off to get some metal bits to start with.....
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Brucey
Really Senior Member II Joined: 07-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 744 |
Posted: 17-March-2005 at 14:25 | ||
Any catalytic converter is liable to damage that will shatter the matrix material and render it useless. Stainless ones can last a long time unless this happens. Incidentally, in the time and effort put into this thread we could all have fixed our cars, rounded up a few bad egg car traders and generally put the World to rights for real..... I'm off to fix my car then...
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~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~ |
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grobda
Groupie Joined: 28-February-2005 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 77 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 17:38 | ||
Damn, the radiator is shot on my other car .... still the franchised dealer told me it needed doing - 3 years ago!
of course im going to do it myself - bought a radiator off ebay for less than half the dealer quoted price, and thats not taking in 3 years of inflation. Haynes manual seems adequate instruction wise unless anyone has any top tips. |
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Doive
Really Senior Member II Joined: 09-February-2005 Location: Clinging to a turbine, Hexham Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 17:00 | ||
The thing is a good BMW OE exhaust will last ten years, so I have been reliably told. My car has just turned 18, and in the history there is only one receipt for exhaust replacement in 1998 at a cost of £600 for original parts. Yikes. At least I won't have to touch it for another three years I hope. As far as I can tell it seems to be a false economy to go for the cheaper aftermarket replacements as these will last two or maybe three years at best. I bought a brand new back box for the chevette for nine quid, it remains to be seen how long that lasts! Probably longer than the car does.... In your case it really is up to you which scale of economies you go for - high initial outlay with the prospect of perhaps ten years service, or lower cost at the risk of a shorter service life. I'd be tempted to spend more now if you intend to keep the car for a long time, see it as an investment. I will concede that car magazines appear to be overemphasising the negative aspects of car buying, I have always found it to be a pleasant experience and I accept any risks that come with it as part and parcel of the whole enterprise. Like most things in life it is very much a learning experience, and I am now more confident in my abilities to sniff out a winner and to spot a lemon. So far it's worked! And I didn't listen to any of these so called experts - there is no substitute for experience, something you have learned the hard way my friend! Car ownership can be made to be enjoyable, as long as you accept the inevitable pitfalls that come with it. Cars are expensive, end of story! |
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1987 BMW 525e Lux Auto (sadly deceased)
Get Firefox - Ditch Hopeless Inertnet Exploder www.doive.co.uk |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 16:06 | ||
Doive,
Thanks for the post. I wonder why the original cats on the car cannot last longer, say 10 yrs, given BMW's high engineering standards. I am compelled to take the more durable route (SS) but I can feel the pinch from the higher costs because of other fixes. No thanks for the telling off ! On a serious note, I did put a lot of posts replying to Dergside and J7 on this "car magazine" culture and its consequences on the second hand market, which I thought may be useful for other members to reflect on and make their views. I know there was too much text there but there was a quite a bit to say. I can very easily ignore J7's rant but I just slide in a post or two now and then to keep his vaugaries flowing !! regards, Automatix Edited by Automatix |
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Doive
Really Senior Member II Joined: 09-February-2005 Location: Clinging to a turbine, Hexham Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 15:37 | ||
Can you two not just get along? You both seem to have serious issues with each other, I can see why with the progressive baiting and retaliation in each of your posts. It makes the forum a LOT less enjoyable for all the other users, if you want to fight one another take it into a series of PM's or something. I don't want to read it. Rant over. On the subject of your cat, I would tend to go for a stainless set for more money. This is because they will last indefinitely - the warranty is only a year longer because the component manufacturers have to cover themselves, they can't go issuing indefinite warranties in case you drive 50k miles a year or something! If you get the cats replaced now with stainless ones you probably won't need to touch them again for another ten years or so. If you two keep on going the way you are currently, I sincerely hope the mods will take action. Both sound like spoilt children, and spoilt children need told off. |
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1987 BMW 525e Lux Auto (sadly deceased)
Get Firefox - Ditch Hopeless Inertnet Exploder www.doive.co.uk |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 15:11 | ||
Hello Folks,
Sorry got completely dragged off into pointless dribble. Can anyone throw some light on the durability of the original catalytic converter on the BMWs (E39). It has broken down within 8 years and I was wondering if it was meant to last longer. Apparently the core in the originals are ceramic and BMW has started adopted stainless steel honeycomb cores lately (2001 or 02 ?) which are more durable. I need to replace both cats on mine and in a dilema about cost/durability. SS is £620 from Eurocarparts while ceramic is £350. The difference in warranty is only 1 year between the two so I am wondering if it is worth spending double the money for a small difference in guaranteed durability. Also I have enquired with MIJ Birmingham about "cut and fit" cats --- only the cat is replaced retaining the down pipes. That costs £400 but it is SS (not sure if it is honeycomb though and whether that matters at all). However I have to drive all the way to get it fitted and also if it needs repairing in case the fitting doesnt go well first time. regards, Automatix Edited by Automatix |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 15:04 | ||
Again you are missing the point completely by picking points out of context. The category D was just used as an example to distinguish the "dodgy" Vs "genuine" and the main issue was completely different. Atleast I am glad you seem to know that there is a Categories C (and B?) as well. If "seam welding" can give a stronger structure than the original why not try it on your own car and make it "stronger" ? As long as it is applied to someone else's (borken) car all this waffle about making cars "roadworthy" is OK is it ? Hmm.... nice principles indeed ! regards, Automatix |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 14:56 | ||
Whats fascinating is that from the same paragraph you pick out sentences out of context and make conclusions without any substantiation. On the other hand Dergside picks up a different set of sentences which addresses the "main issue" and substantiates his point of view through a rational standpoint ! Now, for me I find the second approach to forum discussion more interesting and worthwhile ! Automatix |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 14:52 | ||
Well my point was to see what kind of logical inferences you will draw from what I had pasted and I must say you never let me down -- you slide off into some tangential thinking and ranting as expected ! Your posts range from "advice" at one end of the spectrum to pointless presumptions at the other ! I will let you work out the contradictions in your presumptions from those two contrasting posts of yours that I pasted together. If you cannot, keep checking the posts I will help you "see" it in a weeks time Automatix Edited by Automatix |
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J7 VNK
Really Senior Member I Joined: 24-May-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 450 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 04:33 | ||
Another example of your lack of knowledge and understanding! how is a Cat D, or a Cat C NOT ROADWORTHY? only in the condition it left the accident or other cause of catergorisation (flood, theft etc..) A car can be Cat D simply because someone smashed the door locks off and the car wasn't worth much!! Unroadworthy? I don't think so!! even a Cat D or C crash damage, once repaired IS roadworthy, and in many cases stronger than the original structure due to the laws regarding full seam welding! |
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1999 528iA Sport Pack,Aspen Silver,17" MTech's. 1994 525i Sport, Avus Blue,SOLD (BMWCC Member) 1999 323i SE E46, Black, man, Sports Leather. My Cars "BMW's are for life, not just for Christmas" |
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J7 VNK
Really Senior Member I Joined: 24-May-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 450 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 04:25 | ||
Evidently not! |
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1999 528iA Sport Pack,Aspen Silver,17" MTech's. 1994 525i Sport, Avus Blue,SOLD (BMWCC Member) 1999 323i SE E46, Black, man, Sports Leather. My Cars "BMW's are for life, not just for Christmas" |
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J7 VNK
Really Senior Member I Joined: 24-May-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 450 |
Posted: 16-March-2005 at 04:22 | ||
And your point is Automatrix? I was well aware it was gone! and I don't get scared when a car wanders! I knew what was required when i bought it, i bought the part, I replaced the part! Job done! So again, what's your point? I really didn't realise how much a person could dislike another without actually meeting them in person!! but now I do! certain the feeling's mutal! I'll leave you to live your interesting life paying dealers and mechanics lots of money to change you headlight bulbs! The whole point of my post on the wishbone was to offer advice as to a possible cause of your problem!! It seems you don't want to solve anything! You're a true whinger!! Edited by J7 VNK |
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1999 528iA Sport Pack,Aspen Silver,17" MTech's. 1994 525i Sport, Avus Blue,SOLD (BMWCC Member) 1999 323i SE E46, Black, man, Sports Leather. My Cars "BMW's are for life, not just for Christmas" |
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Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Posted: 15-March-2005 at 19:06 | ||
This seems to be getting a bit tetchy lads.
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Best Wishes
Nigel |
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Dergside
Really Senior Member II Joined: 16-May-2004 Location: Mid West, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 4000 |
Posted: 15-March-2005 at 18:35 | ||
[QUOTE=Automatix] I have learnt one lesson -- just put that four wheels on a ramp and ask someone not "presumptious" but "knowledgeable" to tell me the general condition --- for a fee of course !. I will save half the grief. The other half of the grief I will put it down to inevitable fixes of any used car just as much as I have to fix my own car time and again to keep it running ![/QUOTE] The lesson I had in mind was related to an far earlier part of the episode. |
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Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.
Prev: e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci. e39 523i SE. e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE. e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i. |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 15-March-2005 at 18:34 | ||
Well that is a matter for the huge machinery of bueracracy to sort out. We pay taxes for them to keep things clean and civil. Isnt it ? regards Automatix |
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Automatix
Banned User Joined: 20-February-2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 55 |
Posted: 15-March-2005 at 18:28 | ||
Edited by Automatix |
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grobda
Groupie Joined: 28-February-2005 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 77 |
Posted: 15-March-2005 at 18:10 | ||
theres getting to be way to many inverted commas in your posts.
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