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sevenforty 
Groupie
Joined: 01-November-2005
Location: Croydon
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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 Posted: 11-January-2006 at 16:31 |
they vicous coupling is being done as we speak and they are doing this free of charge, as "Selephant" said they are just clutching at straws and hoping this will cure it, its no skin of my nose as im not paying for it :) they are calling in the morning to let me know if it has cured it (which it probably wont) then i will say to them they definataly dont know what they are doing, then it will be clear they have done all the other work on a "trial and error" bases and it didnt even need doing! i really dont know what else it could be, head gasket has been replaced, heads skimmed (no idea why) catalyst has been replaced thermostat has been replaced and cam sensor has been replaced and now the vicous coupling, god knows what they are doing!? 
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740i
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andrewthompson
Newbie
Joined: 21-November-2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 16:34 |
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Remember as the BMW temperature gauge will show normal for any temperature between 60 to 115 degrees!! This is useless for saving engines but makes customers happier with their cars!!
Internal melt down can occur before the temperature gauge has registered a problem if the coolent is low or displaced by combustion gasses.
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
Available from all good newsagents!
Joined: 15-August-2005
Location: The Mansfield Massive
Status: Offline
Points: 632
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 17:37 |
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True. Also consider that if the engine has been
cooked, the block will also be banana shaped. The
first thing to do is get a combustion gas check of the
coolant. If it shows positive, the block is U/S even
though the heads are flat. What you'd want then is a
replacement short engine just like BMW supplied to
replace early 4.4 Nikasil units with your skimmed
head, two new gaskets etc. Might as well fire a new
timing chain at the same time.
Also, the 4.4 has got an electronic thermostat which
can go t*ts up.
Sorry, but the M62 V8 is a horrible bloody thing and
nothing but trouble. Only Mercedes seem to be able
to build a really bullet proof alloy V8.
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sevenforty
Groupie
Joined: 01-November-2005
Location: Croydon
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 17:43 |
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thermostat was replaced, to try and cure the problem, doesnt sound too good, i must say on the top of the engine block it was all bubbly is this caused by overheating? well im sure what BMW are doing now wont cure the fault so ill let them deal with it, must be looking at £5k worth of work now all in, not my fault BMW couldnt diognose the problem in the first place, looks like im looking at a long winded court case!
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740i
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sevenforty
Groupie
Joined: 01-November-2005
Location: Croydon
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: 12-January-2006 at 08:59 |
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went to BMW today, took the car for a drive with one of there service people and got it back and it seemed OK, we spoke to the MD and he said they would like to keep it overnight and give the car to someone to take home to see if it happens again then we have booked a meeting to see him and the director of aftesales tomorrow to discuss what we do next, just out of interest i phond another BMW and they quoted £200 for the vicous coupling, i reckong it was something else and they are trying to blame that, anyway we will find out what they are prepared to do tomorrow :)
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740i
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Selephant
Groupie
Joined: 28-April-2005
Location: South Staffs
Status: Offline
Points: 98
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Posted: 12-January-2006 at 13:01 |
"Also, the 4.4 has got an electronic thermostat which
can go t*ts up."
Smeg!, can anyone tell me how having an electronic 'stat is better than having a cheaper less complex, more reliable wax type (or what ever a "normal" one is made from).
At the same time your also given a viscous fan which is out the arc.
And acording to Mr Thompson a temp gauge that doesn't actully show you the proper temperature!
Recounting though, I think it's a absoulute certainty your blew you HG. Wheather it was caused by an overheat you may never know, but as Drew said if it was then it is prob new engine time.
The fact it failed again could indicate this, or it may be the case that they cocked the job up.
I know a guy at work who had his HG go on a Vectra.He had it repaired, & when he got it back, all the valve timing was out, & it sounded like a diesel. They tried to fob him off by telling him " it needs to be run in......"
Edited by Selephant
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andrewthompson
Newbie
Joined: 21-November-2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: 12-January-2006 at 17:29 |
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The electronic thermostat allows the engine to run hot under light load which is more efficient and cleaner burning.
When cruising up to about 100 MPH the temp runs at bout 110 degress. When you boot it it drop back to about 85. It also runs at about 85 when the outside air temp reaches 30 degrees.
This makes fault finding very difficult as there is a very fine line between normal temperature and over heating where the water will vilontly boil and quickly lost. Normal cars will never reach these temps unless there is a problem.
Hence if could still be your viscous fan or any combination of simple cooling system things!!
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sevenforty
Groupie
Joined: 01-November-2005
Location: Croydon
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: 12-January-2006 at 18:18 |
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with all the parts i mentioned replaced (thermostat, cam sensor, head gasket, heads skimmed, vicous coupling and catalyst) do you think it will go wrong again or be even more reliable now?
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740i
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
Available from all good newsagents!
Joined: 15-August-2005
Location: The Mansfield Massive
Status: Offline
Points: 632
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 07:10 |
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If it seems to be okay, get rid of it ASAP!
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
Available from all good newsagents!
Joined: 15-August-2005
Location: The Mansfield Massive
Status: Offline
Points: 632
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 07:13 |
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To add to Andrew Thompson's comment's I would
add that when I had my 840Ci (same 4.4 litre engine,
1997 car) the viscous fan was a lot more noticeable
than any other BMW I've had. In other words, in low
speed traffic up to 30-40 mph you could hear it
engaging and disangaging quite regularly so the
theory about a viscous that was a bit weak could well
be the problem if the engine runs that hot.
Give it a go and see what happens - if that cures it,
you want a large chunk of the headgasket costs
back.
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group
Go away rain
Joined: 19-August-2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 6579
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 08:11 |
Very interesting post. I feel sorry for you sevenforty. I would be very interested in hearing the final outcome.
My M52 engined E39..........
I too have coolant leak. I have found it to be from the thermostat housing gasket. I have the new part to go in along with a new stat (proper oldie fashioned wax one!) and water pump.
As I have had a leak, I have been topping it up with a 50-50 mix of water and antifreeze. Reading this post I was a bit alarmed to read that I could have cooked my engine by running it with too low a water level. Coolant has always been visible in the bottom of the expansion tank but is below the normal cold fill level. The temp needle has never ever gone past vertical which to me indicates no overheating but again I was worried to read that BMW temp gauges appear to be as useful as chocolate teapots when it comes to displaying 'normal' temperatures.
Do I have anything to worry about?
On a spooky coinsidence....my colleague has just this minute come into the office after having her Ford Focus cut out on her this morning after it overheated as a result of having a coolant leak. She had complained last week of the heater not working so I told her she needed a new thermostat. Ford has just phoned to say it needs a new thermostat.
Andrew
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current
'13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto
Previous
'04 04 E60 545i SE Auto
'03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen)
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sevenforty
Groupie
Joined: 01-November-2005
Location: Croydon
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 08:25 |
The outcome is that the car looks to be fixed now due to the viscous coupling being replaced, now i think that was the cause of it all along (but will never know) if so the engine has had brand new head gaskets, thermostat, cam sensor, heads skimmed and has had a brand new catalyst (obvioulsy i am going to work on a price this afternoon) but what im saying Drew540i is why get rid of it after its had all brand new parts (that it may not of even needed) surley it will be better then ever?
I mean im not technical at all but i only run the risk of buyng another big engined beamer for £000's worth of more reapirs to crop up? what do you think? 
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740i
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group
Go away rain
Joined: 19-August-2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 6579
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 12:00 |
So after all that you think the problem was a knackered viscous coupling? Maybe I'm missing the point here but surely this would have shown up as a high temp on the temp gauge?
Maybe I should replace mine if I do actually manage to get the sodding thing off the water pump spindle tomorrow!
Andrew
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current
'13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto
Previous
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'03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen)
'98 S E39 523i SE Auto
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andrewthompson
Newbie
Joined: 21-November-2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 12:00 |
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Great news! Keep an eye on the water level!!, it may drop a little in the next few days due to air lock. The operation of the heater is often a way to juge the cooling system. Check both driver and passenger sides.
As for the repairs.
Gasket replaced: Good if done correctely as you now (hopefully) have new gaskets and seals on the top end of your moter. These harden and leak first usually.
Heads Skimmed: Ok as log as not too much was taken off. (Ususally it is a sure way to make sure they are clean and straight)
Thermostat replaced: good these fail about every 80000.
Catylist: Good however these do not usually fail on 4.4 and you have the other one to do!!
Viscous fan: Mine jammed and made lots of noise so I drove home at no more than 1500rpm, these can explode and destroy things even the bonnet when they jamm!!
I presume BMW has put a warrenty on their work. Make sure you use your cas as much as possible before it runs out. If the head is going to go wrong again then it will sonner rather than later.
Really to be fair you have to assume you had two problems, head gaskit and viscous. The cracked expansion tank is an indication of headgasket as well as the failed catylist.
How old is your water pump these only last about 80000 miles as well and give up quickly? Mine jammed at 140000 miles and snapped a tensoner off the front of the motor!! cost me £1300 to repair!!!
Good Luck
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sevenforty
Groupie
Joined: 01-November-2005
Location: Croydon
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 12:16 |
just got back from BMW, had a long chat and they said that all the work did need doing but they just fixed it all the wrong way round and admitted they were wrong, they said that because they never told me the price and got my say so to get the heads skimmed they would take thay price off which was ££850 + the VAT (just under £1k) plus they had just replaced the viscous fan/coupling which was another £370 (acording to them) which they did for free, i said i would get back to them, im aiming for around £1000 + VAT.
the other catalyst has recently been replaced aswell (so they said) so i now have 2 new ones, aparrently it was blocked, done some research and this can be caused by short journeys which i often make, drove the car home (must say they gave it a bloody good clean) and all seemed there including the power, just have to wait and see now. the work is waranted for 3 months or 3000 miles, whatever first so ill try and use it as much as possible. what would everyone else do? bearing in mind ive just spent £3000 on engine repairs (with refund) as mentioned above and its just had its inspection 2 and MOT plus £600 worth of work early this year and 2 new front tyres, and a new exspansion tank, keep or sell?
cheers for your helo everyone, lets hope the problems cured  
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740i
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group
Go away rain
Joined: 19-August-2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 6579
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 12:36 |
 sevenforty wrote:
they had just replaced the viscous fan/coupling which was another £370 (acording to them) which they did for free, |
Aye, very good, £99 from ECP for the part and what an hour to fit at BMW should have been £200 max. Good job they didn't charge you for it.
Personally I would keep the car so that you get you moneys worth. Driving a V8 is an experience I am longing for. Drool.......
Good luck with it!
Andrew
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current
'13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto
Previous
'04 04 E60 545i SE Auto
'03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen)
'98 S E39 523i SE Auto
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Selephant
Groupie
Joined: 28-April-2005
Location: South Staffs
Status: Offline
Points: 98
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 12:52 |
It could be that when you fan failed, your engine overheated, which caused the headgaskets to go. You'll never be sure, but having spent the money you have spent & you have at least got a guarentee for repairs, then keep the car.
As you say you might buy another which turns out to be a bag of spanners, or stolen or whatever. Buying used is of course always a risk.
It may well be a good idea to get an after market temp gauge fitted (one that actually tells you the temperature of the engine!)
To go back years to when I was a boy, Triumph Stag V8s suffered from Overheating(because they were poorly manufactured) & I've heard of many an owner fitting 2 temp gauges, one for each head.
Best of luck matey, keep us informed how it's going.
Just hope the gearbox doesn't explode next week! 
Edited by Selephant
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Selephant
Groupie
Joined: 28-April-2005
Location: South Staffs
Status: Offline
Points: 98
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 12:54 |
Having read 740's woes, can anyone tell me why they still fit viscous belt driven fans, insted of electric ones ?
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sevenforty
Groupie
Joined: 01-November-2005
Location: Croydon
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 13:01 |
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funny you should say that Andrew, i phoned another BMW garage and they quoted £200 all in for the fan repair, i said that to them and they were a bit embarrassed :) yeh i think ill keep it, see if anything happens in the next 3 months and take it from there i guess, too much of a goodlooking and driving car to go to waste :)
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740i
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dutch
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 17-December-2005
Location: lakeside Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 438
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Posted: 13-January-2006 at 17:08 |
may be worth pushing for more warrenty if they are confident that its cured the problem. all that money spent enjoy while you can.
good luck 740
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e39,1200 bandit
cooper S, Z3 topazbleu
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740i 1998 blown head gasket???