Provisional licence holders

netwhizkid wrote: larzyh wrote: netwhizkid - I agree with much of what you've said but let me get the right - you got a provisional license at 17, not to use it, but in order to drive un-accompanied on your second provisional license at 18? I would consider that a misuse of the system, as the first license is intended for you to gain experience while accompanied by another, fully qualified, driver. It is thus possible to drive unaccompanied without any experience, whatsoever; crazy system! I got my first provisional a few days after my 17th Birthday and I started driving on it and was driving on it for 5 months before it expired and I then got my 2nd Provisional and am driving on that since while waiting for my test, my father or mother usually accompanied me on all journeys and we would often go on nonsensical journey's just simply so I could get used to driving, I drove these in both my Auto BMW and a Manual Toyota and I can drive both. This way I got enough experience and confidence in so I could drive on my own with my second provisional, a person has to learn to drive on their own too; one must remember because you can't have mam or dad with you while you are taking the practical driving test. What is happening now is nothing short of a nanny state and will actually contribute to higher failure rates in my opinion. Drivers Education is key and you have so many young people sitting behind the wheel and they haven't a clue how to drive a car properly or the risks involved. The same goes for the functioning of a car I'd estimate that 50% of drivers don't know the basics of how an internal combustion engine works or that a clutch isn't just a peddle. I understood most of this when I was 12yrs old. Also as a nation of Manual Cars there is the inherent dangers involved with Manuals as they are harder to drive when you begin driving  eg. stalling etc. In America they begin you in Automatics to let you get used to the complex nature of traffic and controlling a car and then migrate you onto Manual if you wish. This was how I started as I began in my Auto BMW and after a month moved to Manual and after a little practice got into that easily and I must say my slight auto experience helped me greatly in this aspect of my driving. Not to turn this into a Auto V Manual Debate but I think the way I did this was an excellent way and I spent over �400 in lessons from a Qualified instructor in teaching me how to drive in both Vehicles although I may have taken a few extra lessons in the Manual Car but this is because I plan to undertake my driving test in a Manual so as not to have Automatic Restriction on my licence leaving me free to choose either transmission method throughout my life. When I get my Licence it is will be no big deal as it is just a Licence plenty people have full driving licences and are worse drivers than any learner, approx. 30,000 people got free full licences under a licence amnesty to clear a backlog in the past. Adopting a safe and courteous driving mentality is key and this move by the Government is just another smoke-screen to scapegoat young drivers for the Governments inability to adopt better driving policies and improve our roads which are 20yrs behind Continental Europe, a starter they could make is exempt crucial modern safety features from VRT (Vehicle Registration Tax) which has seen a large percentage of Irish cars sold with poverty specs to ensure market prices as a result your "standard Irish" Model won't have much in the line of safety features and forget any toys or luxury like maybe GPS or Air-Conditioning as standard. These punitive taxes are forcing young people who generally have enough expense of Education and maybe a Mortgage into unsafe cars which is thus leading to higher fatalities on our roads. While the intention of the Government maybe good they sure are making a dog's dinner of the way they are going about doing it.

I Musy say netwhizkid that was a great reply you made there with a lot of very good points,Especially regarding people not knowing the BASIC controls of the car,within the last few weeks i have seen 3 people driving around my town in the dark with no lights on.Like how thick does someone have to be that you forget to turn on your lights, it is basic common sense..I know of 1 or 2 girls who dont even know what foglights are ar where to turn them on in a car.Dont even mention asc or dsc or ebd etc etc..There is proof that there is major lack in education to people who are learning..btw the im not making a sexist statement about girls,driving, they are just the particular examples i have seen..

Sure some of the driving test centres leave a lot to be desired, when i was doing my test I was in the driving school beside it before hand going thru some last minute checks, the instructors were commenting that the tester brought a motorcyclist thru a stop sign 3 times and he didnt stop once that same guy passed his test as he was the only one out at the time.

My test from the moment I met the tester to the time he gave me the slip of paper was 15 mins, I rang swmbo and she was astonished how quickly my test was over.

Dont forget the last time that there was a major backlog on people waiting for tests, they all got amnesties.

Its a load of if people want 2 drive on provisionals let them im on my 2nd so far if these boyz racer lads who giv every young lad a bad name get a full license they ill get cheaper insurance powerful cars and they ill think there great on there full if the cops get them that it wont be as bad as if they had there provisonal license still its not noing the rules of the road that is killing people its speed or drink drivers i could be on my provisonal license Full license or just hav a fishing license with me i could still do 150mph out a road and crash in to sum1 and kill him and myself wat should be done i think is bring in the speed cameraz or more guards on the roads.

I love it when people say they couldn't pass their driving test now !

What pittsy is saying is he doesn't think he could reach the min standard required to be allowed to drive on British roads unsupervised.......

Of course he could !

The test over here is better than it has ever been, it just seems to be being bogged down with older people (possibly like pittsy) forgetting that they couldn't always drive, and have actually learnt a lot over the years, and they seem to want new drivers to have all their experience.

If you Irish boys really want to feel hard done by, imagine having to drive to the British system, you can't drive unsupervised at all until you've passed a test, theory, hazard perception, & practicle.

Security2U wrote: Its a load of if people want 2 drive on provisionals let them im on my 2nd so far if these boyz racer lads who giv every young lad a bad name get a full license they ill get cheaper insurance powerful cars and they ill think there great on there full if the cops get them that it wont be as bad as if they had there provisonal license still its not noing the rules of the road that is killing people its speed or drink drivers i could be on my provisonal license Full license or just hav a fishing license with me i could still do 150mph out a road and crash in to sum1 and kill him and myself wat should be done i think is bring in the speed cameraz or more guards on the roads.

Just get your full licence and stop whining.

kbannon wrote: b318isp wrote: The loophole should be tightened, but a lot more is needed (as per the UK system) to make a real difference. With operation GoSlow kicking off in a few weeks the risks on 1st/3rd prov licencees will increase.

Working in Dublin City Centre at the present, only for I know what the traffic I would be driving in. The train is a complete pain in the butt, never on time. Operation go slow should be fun this year if they start to clamp down on the licences. There was a major checkpoint on the locan road a couple of months back, about 20 Gardai checking tax/insurance. Large number of cars pulled in.

larzyh wrote: I know of no European country other than the UK who operate a Learner Driver system.

I'm surprised by this comment...I thought they all did, including you, but you choose not to enforce yours.

Our licences have been changing to fall inline with europe too, max weights, max seating etc etc.