NEWBIE! Fruity E30 project / worlds longest introduction!

Evening all!

Thought I'd pop in and say hello, as I'm a new member and also new to BMW's!

I come from a Vauxhall background, yes it was a Nova... SHOCK HORROR, I bought as a 1.2spi with 26,000 genuine miles on it, and turned it into a 320bhp turbo�d torque-steering / under-steering death machine!

The Nova did well, and proved, after a good summer of events, that you can do a lot with the little 2 door hatch, it�s just such a shame it gets such a bad rep!

A few pics of the car:

Pre turbo (redtop 2l 16V engine)

Post turbo engine (never did get round to hiding the FMIC - but that was the plan - wolf in sheep�s clothing etc!)

Interior�. Minimal!

Always good to have good brakes with 320bhp in a bean can!

Lots of stitch welding to hold it all together�

The Nova was meant to be a track car, but it ended up with too much power, which resulted in more of a � mile car. PB was a 12.7 sec pass, running only 6psi of boost on road tires. Was wound up to 22psi soon after and was terrifying! Only got one trip to Pod when it ran the full 22psi boost on slicks, but it was rained off� Boo!

A few videos on YouTube: (All when only running 6psi, not 22psi)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwZqk0ZWhto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxbK65T-YLU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KwXTb6aRqo

Also got this which is my baby� Started life as a Moto-X bike which I�ve converted into a Supermoto beast! Spends most of its time drifting, or on the back wheel, or on the floor after I�ve binned it as per usual! Thank god for crash bobbins / sliders! It�s a 450 Yam if anyone�s interested!

Anywho, now that I�ve rambled on and justified the Nova, which is what I spent two years doing, on to more important matters!

Been car-less since the end of summer, when I decided to strip and sell the Nova for bits, as more and more power hikes seemed to mean more and more wheel-spin! That's when I realised (after years of being told this by friends) that I needed RWD in my life!

I do like a good bit of fabrication; having built the Nova, and having friends with cars such as a YB Cossie engined Caterham, few Mk1 Escorts, Westy Megablade, and the cream of the crop a Talbot Sunbeam with an RX7 engine in!

It�s taken a few months of research to decide what to do as a next project. I wanted a shell that I can get lots of fibreglass / carbon panels for, and other motorsport bits. I was originally going to use my LET turbo engine out the Nova in an Opel Kadett C saloon, but decided � for bhp the Vauxhall engine couldn't do the job, plus it meant a trip to Germany to fetch a decent shell! I then toyed with a Porsche 944 with a rotary engine in, then an Audi quattro which I planned to convert to SWB rally spec. A YB engined mk2 Cortina was on the cards for a while, then a Radical type bike engined car, but finally knew I was onto a winner when I saw this at the Autosport Show a few weeks back and fell in love!

When I got home I did a bit of google image searching and found these, which are all stunning! (Not sure if I want to have another sleeper, or a stickered up touring car rep jobbie though�)

I know they are all M3�s, and they are a lot of money, and as I plan to a lot of chopping / fabrication, it would be sacrilege to butcher a nice M3 about, so I am going to settle on the normal E30. I�ve been doing a bit of reading around, and as I will be fitting a lot of fibreglass / carbon I�m toying with the idea of using M3 panels (arches etc) as I love the lines of the arches (similar to the Nova ), but I don�t know yet.

Also don�t know the differences between the different models of E30 (facelift wise), but I am after a mint 2 door saloon shell without a sunroof, which is proving tricky to find!

Engine wise, after MUCH deliberation, I am going to use a Volvo 5 cylinder engine... Strange you may think! But having seen good results with both 4 and 5 cylinder engines, that is what I plan to use! It will be turbo�d and maybe charged too.

A lot of the inspiration is being drawn from Ronnie Hilmersson�s Manta A, which is worth a look in at http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/

I am probably going to ask a lot of questions at first, as I know nothing about the E30 and its different guises, but please bear with me!

Main question of the hour is� Seriously, how hard is it going to be to find a mint 2 door E30 with NO SUNROOF! (Preferably in black or silver - but now I�m being picky!)

Thanks for your time guys, and any info you have will be highly appreciated!

Cheers mate - will have a look!

Yes... I get the feeling the Volvo lump may not be to everyones taste (especially the purists!), but its an engine that is very under-rated, and has seen very good results for not too much money!

A lot lighter than an M3 lump too!

Thanks buddy!

Thanks dude!

YB plan sounds good, shame it never happened... Awesome engine!

Yeh true about the roof - I just worry if I did weld / smooth it, it would crack / look crap! Will keep an eye out for an E30 without s/r for a few weeks but investigate welding up the roof...

Ah the ovlov engine!  Yes a weird choice I know, but shipping parts in from abroad doesn't bother me... I imported a lot of the Nova's engine bits from Japan (Sard FPR, HKS SSQV bov etc...)

Seriously - check out http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/ if you haven't already... Amazing results with that car / engine. Just something I've been talking about for a while (mainly because its a bit different!) As I said, was talking about a YB in a Mk2 Escort / Cortina, or the C20LET in the Opel Kadett C - but its been done many times before! I know there's a reason for that, but I do like to be different!

I'm intrigued also by your plans.

If your planning on putting a full weld in cage, with front and rear turret bars, in the e30 and stitch welding, as with the Nova, then I cannot see that body flex should be an issue so welding a panel into the sunroof hole could be a solution, afterall, this is quite common with M3 owners who track prep thier cars.

This may be of interest.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1987-BMW-316-E30-complete-or-parts_W0Q QitemZ260207468161QQihZ016QQcategoryZ9837QQssPageNameZWDVWQQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

( no connection etc etc )

A Volvo engine in an E30 , I suppose it is different and probably hasn't been do before.

Take it that your planning on turrning the engine 90 deg. and retaining the rwd?

Look forward to reading more. Good luck.

BTW. Welcome.  

Right, the engine your using if its a 5 cyl is the B5234T Also known as the T5 motor, thats the one you want, 225 out of the factory, With relatively simple mods like bigger turbo/injectors/strengthened rods and pistons 350-400 brake is easy enough to reach.

The T5's were all front wheel drive, however Volvo out the whiteblock engine in the 960 albeit 6 cylinder but it was RWD and some were manual so theres your gearbox issue sorted, well if you can find one. (I have one but your not getting it :D)

If tis 4 cylinder your after then itll be a B23ET red block out of a 740 Turbo Pre 85. Parts are easier to come by for the older red blocks esp in scandanavia and easier to get Gearboxes as they were all RWd anyway. However id be going for the T5 whiteblock if i were you purely for the rarity basis.

I am building a Volvo 242 Coupe at the moment with the T5 engine fitted and M90 box, its never been done to a 240 in the uk or ireland and there is a few stateside and in scandanavia so it should be interesting. especially since its one of about 4-5 242's in Uk and Ireland. Its a 242 mind not the more common V6 262 with the chop top.

If you need any advice pm me and ill give you my number, dont go down the Volvo road without getting some advice first anyway.

Sten Parner is worth googling too, he supplies everything you could need for bleeding hp out of Volvo units!

And go for it, Theres enough S50 engined and S38 engines E30's out there, be different! And if its anything like the Nova it should turn out fantastic.

Yeah the Getrag 265 in the 635 or the pre 85 735 will bolt up to the 4 cylinder red block. Not the 225 unit unfortunately. In America they use crazy boxes with the 4 cyl, everything from mustang 5 speeds to 6 speed Supra Gearboxes, I suppose any Engine and box will go together if you spend enough money on adaptor plates etc.

Good news is you can buy that T5 engine complete for around 3-400 pounds, a lot cheaper than an E36 M3 engine! They are 225 in the 850's, 250 in the T5-R and 850R (it was only a difference in mapping) then in the V70 T5 they were 250 standard. in the later V70R AWD's they were 265 with a bigger turbo, I find it gas how for upped the capacity to 2.5 and its still 225! Volvo were getting this in 1993 when they brought out the 850 T5 and it was from a 2.3!

You would probably find it easier to use 960 mounts and a 960 sump just shorten it by 1 cylinder, ill be doing this myself so i can forward on measurements etc when ive done mine. The mounts will be easier to adapt for an E30 chassis anyway due to the crossmember location. Believe it or not a 240 is not much bigger than an E30, its the fact there made of Granite that gives them the tankish weight!!!

Ben O Brien wrote: Yeah the Getrag 265 in the 635 or the pre 85 735 will bolt up to the 4 cylinder red block. Not the 225 unit unfortunately. In America they use crazy boxes with the 4 cyl, everything from mustang 5 speeds to 6 speed Supra Gearboxes, I suppose any Engine and box will go together if you spend enough money on adaptor plates etc. Good news is you can buy that T5 engine complete for around 3-400 pounds, a lot cheaper than an E36 M3 engine! They are 225 in the 850's, 250 in the T5-R and 850R (it was only a difference in mapping) then in the V70 T5 they were 250 standard. in the later V70R AWD's they were 265 with a bigger turbo, I find it gas how for upped the capacity to 2.5 and its still 225! Volvo were getting this in 1993 when they brought out the 850 T5 and it was from a 2.3! You would probably find it easier to use 960 mounts and a 960 sump just shorten it by 1 cylinder, ill be doing this myself so i can forward on measurements etc when ive done mine. The mounts will be easier to adapt for an E30 chassis anyway due to the crossmember location. Believe it or not a 240 is not much bigger than an E30, its the fact there made of Granite that gives them the tankish weight!!!

Shame about the 265 box! Boo! Any boxes that bolt straight to the 225 worth looking into? Why is it called red block / white block? Any reason?

So 5 cylinder wise, would it make a difference which one to try and get hold of? I know they are different power outputs, but that is irrelevant obviously, but in terms of cc, which is the 'better' starting point? (Getting bits for them - rods, pistons etc...) Any advice?

Any reason for the 960 sump / mounts over the others? Mounts stronger maybe, but sump?

Good old granite Volvo's eh?!

Thanks a lot mate!

Bigian wrote: Welcome to the forum once converted you will never go back unless you nail it to hard going round a roundabout it can be quite entertaining tho it looks even more impressive when I'm drifting my lorry dont think boss would be to happy if he seen me. Anyway welcome

Lorry drifting...? I take my hat off to you!

the M90 out of a manual Volvo 960 2.5 will bolt up to the T5 engine, same bell housing pattern, Use a Diesel Clutch out of an 850 TDI and your away!

Red blocks have blocks that are painted red leaving the factory, White blocks are aluminium and unpainted so "whiteblocks" . Its just easy that way to determine which generation of engine one is talking in Volvo circles, as a General Rule of Thumb the reds are RWD and whites FWD, the exception being the 960 with a 3.0/2.5 6 cyl whiteblock but RWD. Thankfully the rare manuals will allow the likes of you and me to use a Manual Box in a RWD T5 set up.

Just that 960 mounts will be set up towards RWD and wont be at funny angles, easier to make adaptor plates/arms etc. The Sump Shape will make it easier for you to fit the engine around the E30 subframe... at least it should!

Best Engine is the B5234T that would be found in a 94/95 850 T-5, If you are after crazy power you'll be fitting Sten Rods and Pistons or similar so you basically want the 2.3 engine as it has thicker cylinder walls over the 2.5 and also the Pre-S/C/V70 engines will be non VVTi and easier to work with in terms of ECU's etc. Also theres a lot more about and less money spent on the engine means more for nice parts!

Rhys wrote: Blimey, you are a complete nutter aren't you... I think you'll fit in nicely here! Welcome to the forum

couldn't have put it better myself!

Bigian wrote: It's nae a case of taking hat off its changing drawers afterwards.  its just a wee 7.5tonne for the moment heres hoping in a months time 10tonne dont do the same thing or will be needing box of nappies on bed in truck. mind you can remember in getting the arse oot on the bus another story for another time.

Mental!

Ben O Brien wrote: the M90 out of a manual Volvo 960 2.5 will bolt up to the T5 engine, same bell housing pattern, Use a Diesel Clutch out of an 850 TDI and your away! Red blocks have blocks that are painted red leaving the factory, White blocks are aluminium and unpainted so "whiteblocks" . Its just easy that way to determine which generation of engine one is talking in Volvo circles, as a General Rule of Thumb the reds are RWD and whites FWD, the exception being the 960 with a 3.0/2.5 6 cyl whiteblock but RWD. Thankfully the rare manuals will allow the likes of you and me to use a Manual Box in a RWD T5 set up. Just that 960 mounts will be set up towards RWD and wont be at funny angles, easier to make adaptor plates/arms etc. The Sump Shape will make it easier for you to fit the engine around the E30 subframe... at least it should! Best Engine is the B5234T that would be found in a 94/95 850 T-5, If you are after crazy power you'll be fitting Sten Rods and Pistons or similar so you basically want the 2.3 engine as it has thicker cylinder walls over the 2.5 and also the Pre-S/C/V70 engines will be non VVTi and easier to work with in terms of ECU's etc. Also theres a lot more about and less money spent on the engine means more for nice parts!

So what sort of power can the M90 box take? Guess its a 5 speed...

Same with the 850 TDI clutch...?

Interesting about the red / white block - makes sense now!

960 mounts make sense, as does the sump now, fwd sump would hit the subframe I guess... 

Like the sound of the B5234T, sounds perfect. Will be on the lookout for a battered 850 T-5 then!

EXCELLENT INFO!

Rhys wrote: Blimey, you are a complete nutter aren't you... I think you'll fit in nicely here! Welcome to the forum

Cheers mate!

The blue bullet wrote: Hello and welcome Aramil  I am looking forward to the adventures of your e30. I'm loving this already, the motoring equivalent of a pick 'n' mix - keep it coming!

Me too - going to be a fun project this one!