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Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03-November-2008 at 05:02

I didnt saw any topic about breaking law here, so presume this is not accepted to promote illegal activities- of course I dont want to break a law.

Lets make it clear. Im not Irish and dont know many laws/things- thats why Im here to ask. With full respect.

1) I see many cars with UK plates here in Ireland. All these guys "drive to work" every day from Nothern Ireland and are like tourists or visitors?

2) In NCT test centre- does they check engine and body numbers matching numbers in car document? For example if I swap engine for bigger engine.

3) If I import carparts or car without engine or engine does I have to pay VRT? For example- I take car into parts in NI- import all parts to ROI and then I "build" car in ROI... Still have to pay? Car wreck? If body is wreck and engine is OK. Car comes into ROI and price to calculate VRT is low and then I pay lower tax and later I move these documents and new plates to the  "freshly built" car I made from imported parts. You know what I mean...

4) Inside European Union this type of import tax is illegal and irish people are robbed in the bright daylight. Somebody does something about it? Is there any interest group I can support? All goods must move free inside the EU, and its matter of time when this type of tax will be removed. I want to speed it up.

5) Why Road Tax calculations are based on the CO2 emission or engine size? There is no global warming! It was false alarm. http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=JZBP-JYzQKg Or you can find more facts from universities around the world or from internet. Anyway- CO2 is not reason of warming but result. Last 2 - 3 years planet is cooling and CO2 will drop. Why we have to pay these idiotic charges? Is there any group who is fighting against this tax abuse?

Thanks guys and dont let them rob your hard earned money!

I dont wear seatbelt - I die like a man!

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Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 05:36

Just sad is to see nice powerful cars off the road becouse of this tax abuse.

You have to fight to your right to drive M5!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kbannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 08:38
Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

I didnt saw any topic about breaking law here, so presume this is not accepted to promote illegal activities- of course I dont want to break a law.

Lets make it clear. Im not Irish and dont know many laws/things- thats why Im here to ask. With full respect.

Encouraging people to break the law isn't allowed on the forum!

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

1) I see many cars with UK plates here in Ireland. All these guys "drive to work" every day from Nothern Ireland and are like tourists or visitors?
Have you tried reporting them? It is quite possible that they are not here as what revenue define as permanent residents.

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

2) In NCT test centre- does they check engine and body numbers matching numbers in car document? For example if I swap engine for bigger engine.
Not to my knowledge. However, you may find that emissions rates will not tally. Also if they know that its supposed to be a 4 or 5 pot and you stick in a V8 then they will definitely know and refuse the test.

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

3) If I import carparts or car without engine or engine does I have to pay VRT? For example- I take car into parts in NI- import all parts to ROI and then I "build" car in ROI... Still have to pay? Car wreck? If body is wreck and engine is OK. Car comes into ROI and price to calculate VRT is low and then I pay lower tax and later I move these documents and new plates to the  "freshly built" car I made from imported parts. You know what I mean...
VRT is not an importation tax, its a registration tax payable as soon as the car is going on the road. You can bring in truckloads of body parts and engines but not have to pay until one is to be put on the road. (racing cars and tractors staying on private property aren't liable for VRT!)

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

4) Inside European Union this type of import tax is illegal and irish people are robbed in the bright daylight. Somebody does something about it? Is there any interest group I can support? All goods must move free inside the EU, and its matter of time when this type of tax will be removed. I want to speed it up.
Whilst the tax is unfair it is most definitley not illegal and many EU states have some form of VRT!

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

5) Why Road Tax calculations are based on the CO2 emission or engine size? There is no global warming! It was false alarm. http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=JZBP-JYzQKg Or you can find more facts from universities around the world or from internet. Anyway- CO2 is not reason of warming but result. Last 2 - 3 years planet is cooling and CO2 will drop. Why we have to pay these idiotic charges? Is there any group who is fighting against this tax abuse?

Thanks guys and dont let them rob your hard earned money!

The CO2 based system is fairer than the previous mechanism but it still doesn't punish usage staying with the old idea that a cars potential is damaging to the environment.
Oh, and don't let one video on youtube confuse the issue of global warming!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 15:35

Thanks for answer! 

Of course I dont want to break the law or you do it. But there must be some shortcuts in the law. They cant write all the cases in the law. So please follow the law- but use your brains to make your life easier..

1) I know this sounds like Micheal Jackson, but what I really dont want molest german engineers piece of art. I know classic cars are more tax friendly. If I buy old car and I need to change couple of parts... or little bit more    

NCT dont want to see my car and can I lift classic bodypanels/roof/windows/all external parts to 90s car with ZV plates. Is it still classic? NCT is not required and I need to change unsafe and old parts. How many parts I can change to be still classic?

I dont want to break the law Im just interested making wolf in sheep skin. Its obvious, that all parts cant last 30 years and still be safe and road legal.  Or is it main target to convince Garda patrol that car is qualified as classic and some parts are changed...

Probably there is many classics in Ireland with 90% of parts changed.

I dont want to be smartass, but I remember the M50 wasnt goverment property. It belonged to some private company who built it. Maybe goverment bought it already but question is... if garda stops me in M50 he cant fine me driving without NCT?   Ok ok

2) Back to the serious topic. E36 318 or 320. Have anybody experiences with fitted turbo kit and VRT? Engine size remains unchanged and what about tax? Do they tax me then based on CO2 emission?

If measured CO2 is lower than pre turbo - does I pay lower tax then? As a welder I can build "magic exhaust pipe" and reduce CO2 emission.

3)Insurance of modified car with fitted turbo? Overtaking and other dangerous activities are takeing shorter distance and shorter time- so more powerful cars are safer. Insurance rate is going to drop or rise after turbo? How much or is cheaper to buy and insure biggest stock engine?

Thanks again!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkIrl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 17:05
Just a quick note - CO2 road tax only applies to car
bearing a 08 registration plate or later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kbannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 18:16
Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

NCT dont want to see my car and can I lift classic bodypanels/roof/windows/all external parts to 90s car with ZV plates. Is it still classic? NCT is not required and I need to change unsafe and old parts. How many parts I can change to be still classic?

It tends to be the chassis that dictates the cars age.

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

I dont want to be smartass, but I remember the M50 wasnt goverment property. It belonged to some private company who built it. Maybe goverment bought it already but question is... if garda stops me in M50 he cant fine me driving without NCT?   Ok ok

Dream on!

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

2) Back to the serious topic. E36 318 or 320. Have anybody experiences with fitted turbo kit and VRT? Engine size remains unchanged and what about tax? Do they tax me then based on CO2 emission?

If measured CO2 is lower than pre turbo - does I pay lower tax then? As a welder I can build "magic exhaust pipe" and reduce CO2 emission.

If you are struggling to cope with the costs of registering or taxing a car then you'll die when you have to start maintaining it, especially if its a powerful M3/M5 engine.

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

3)Insurance of modified car with fitted turbo? Overtaking and other dangerous activities are takeing shorter distance and shorter time- so more powerful cars are safer. Insurance rate is going to drop or rise after turbo? How much or is cheaper to buy and insure biggest stock engine?

Ring AXA or any insurance company and say that bit about shorter overtking to them. Tell us what they say after they stop laughing at you!

By and large, any performance modifications will require independent assessment for roadworthiness and will probably incur a premium rise!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 18:16

fitting turbo does not change then my Road Tax?

I have evil smile in my face

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 18:45

Of course Im aware about cost for good maintenance.

But I just not used to pay crazy 2000 - 3000 euros extra to just keep car on the road.

Men I HAVE A DREAM!

I have a dream when all clubmembers can drive their dreamcar.

I have a dream that their families and hobby dont suffer becouse of greedy goverment.

I have a dream......

I just cant understand! Back home I can afford new leasing car with full insurance, but here I have to go way too low with standards to feed some fat cats. Im not working to feed them!

I just want YOU guys see this time in your life as well. Its all about quality and power! Older models they lack of quality and power...   Its my opinion.

Be honest- hands up who will upgrade your car for bigger engine BMW if there is no VRT from tomorrow?

Maintenance and fuel is nonsence if you compare salaries! My biggest problem is overcome this mental protest against taxes.

Or - Im going to outlaw class ;)     Much easier

 

I know - im maniac

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 19:01

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

NCT dont want to see my car and can I lift classic bodypanels/roof/windows/all external parts to 90s car with ZV plates. Is it still classic?

You cannot have a ZV plate on a '90's car.  Its only available (at an additional cost) when registering a car that is older than 30 years from the time of first registration.

The VRT people will not allow you to declare a car that is not fit for use on Irish roads.  If it is not fit for use then road safety laws disallow its use and you will be expected to bring the car up to a standard of roadworthiness and resubmit it for VRT.  Aftermarket mods such as turbo's in theory could increase the amount of VRT charged if it is deemed to increase the Open Market Selling Price of the car.  In reality most VRT office staff wouldn't recognize an aftermarket mod such as this if it bit them on the ass, let alone put a value on it.

You seem determined to find a loophole in the VRT system and the best you will find is an anomoly such as the fact that VRT on a '99 328i coupe is more than a similar age and mileage 328Ci.  They've had 15 years of running the VRT system to make sure that there's unlikely to be a stroke you can try to pull that they haven't seen before.

So, in summary, VRT is a pita but its the only legal game in town.  Avoiding it might work for a while but they have the ultimate sanction of having the power to take your car and leave the burden of proof on you to explain why the rules don't apply to you.

Similarly with insurance, try and play the system and you'll find that at the very time you need the cover, after something happens, they'll be more than pleased to find a way out of paying your claim.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G.T. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 19:08

Quote 4) Inside European Union this type of import tax is illegal and irish people are robbed in the bright daylight. Somebody does something about it? Is there any interest group I can support? All goods must move free inside the EU, and its matter of time when this type of tax will be removed. I want to speed it up.

IMO, this country is one of the worst places in the western world to live if you're into cars. This VRT crap has car prices at ridiculous levels. €98,950 for a used M3??? Go across the pond and get one for half that. Simply f*&%ing absurd. Then you have absurd insurance rates and the road tax that adds insult to injury, considering the state of the roads.   

Re: your question about the turbo, it won't affect your road tax rates. My 318ti was FI'd and I still paid the same 1.8L rate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 22:09

Its very easy to go outlaw class. There is many good loopholes to cover scammers...

Its just unbelievable that NCT guys usually dont check body and engine number matching in the book. Ok maybe they check ...

But I do not want break the law - I want smooth ride and smooth taxes.

1)Do anybody knows whats the story with UK/NI rental cars. If im renting from UK/NI and having "longer trip" in Ireland. Does I have to pay VRT or rental company if Im stay longer than week/month/decade

Of course all UK/NI taxes are paid in full.Does Garda will impound rental cars?

And if Im not the person who rented- changing rental contract is just "copy paste job" and can be changed daily basis. Of course there is even more tax friendly countries to register a car rental company.

2) About classics... If I import E9 CSL coupe wreck from Deutschland and want to restore it using e30 or e36 parts. How many parts I can change to still be classic e9 and not e30/e36.  Logical that body should be from e9. But if I change engine to new e30/e36 engine? Or I got my ZV plates and now its my own business how I modify my classic? Is there any standards?

This topic is killing my head last 2 weeks...  I already invented Phantom cars, but its too early to talk about.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 23:39
With respect - if your approach going forward is in any way consistent with the "inventive" and "creative" ideas you've outlined then the NCT and insurance constraints will probably be of little concern.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989 520i Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 23:47

Me thinks your pigeon english is a little too pigeon to be pigeon if ya get my meanin.

Where you from maniac?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kbannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-November-2008 at 23:57
Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

Of course Im aware about cost for good maintenance.

But I just not used to pay crazy 2000 - 3000 euros extra to just keep car on the road.

Men I HAVE A DREAM!

I have a dream when all clubmembers can drive their dreamcar.

I have a dream that their families and hobby dont suffer becouse of greedy goverment.

I have a dream......

I just cant understand! Back home I can afford new leasing car with full insurance, but here I have to go way too low with standards to feed some fat cats. Im not working to feed them!

I just want YOU guys see this time in your life as well. Its all about quality and power! Older models they lack of quality and power...   Its my opinion.

Be honest- hands up who will upgrade your car for bigger engine BMW if there is no VRT from tomorrow?

You seem to be confusing VRT with Motor Tax. There are loads of used cars out there for sale that had the VRT paid years ago (e.g. E39 M5s) but they will cost you €1400 per annum in motor tax.

As for VRT being gone tomorrow, this will never happen. Apart from the fact that the country cannot afford to drop it (would you rather pay more in income tax?), with the greens in power they will not tolerate any kind of pro-motoring changes in legislation!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beemerboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-November-2008 at 11:57
Originally posted by G.T. G.T. wrote:

Quote 4) Inside European Union this type of import tax is illegal and irish people are robbed in the bright daylight. Somebody does something about it? Is there any interest group I can support? All goods must move free inside the EU, and its matter of time when this type of tax will be removed. I want to speed it up.

IMO, this country is one of the worst places in the western world to live if you're into cars. This VRT crap has car prices at ridiculous levels. €98,950 for a used M3??? Go across the pond and get one for half that. Simply f*&%ing absurd. Then you have absurd insurance rates and the road tax that adds insult to injury, considering the state of the roads.   

Re: your question about the turbo, it won't affect your road tax rates. My 318ti was FI'd and I still paid the same 1.8L rate.

 

I completely agree, I don't know why we tollerate it, it's only this way because people keep paying. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-November-2008 at 13:58

Originally posted by Beemerboy Beemerboy wrote:

I completely agree, I don't know why we tollerate it, it's only this way because people keep paying. 

That almost makes it sound optional! 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G.T. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-November-2008 at 14:15

I wish it were optional! At least Ireland isn't as bad as Hong Kong.

Kidding aside, I just don't see how this whole VRT thing is still in place. If I'm not mistaken, Ireland is the only country in the EU that still "penalizes" car guys with VRT (at these rates, at least). I remember reading something to the effect that while the rest of the EU did away with the VRT, I think Ireland just changed what they called the tax and kept charging away. I'm not 100% accurate on that, BTW...but I'll keep yapping because this is a sore subject for me.

To use the used M3 as an example, if BMW can build the car, ship it to the US, sell it for approximately half of what they go for here and still make a profit, tell me where the hell the other €49k is going if I buy one here at Irish market prices??? Mother f*&%ers!!!

The thing is that the powers that be aren't even taking me out to dinner and buying me flowers before they screw me. I say that if they f*&k you, f*&k them right back. If you find a loophole, take advantage of it. It probably won't remain in place for long anyway, if there is such a thing. The greedy f*&ks won't allow it...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-November-2008 at 16:12

Hi again!

Im ready to start a little war in Africa to overtake power in some small country- its all only just to get diplomatic immunity in Ireland

But probably they tax even foreign diplomats :D Anyway-all this topic sounds like good businessplan. Just book hour or two with lawyer and shoot him with all crazy ideas.  Find a loophole and make it bigger - make money out of it. Lets take NI or UK car rental companies. They can enter to ROI and stay here couple of days or little longer. Goverment cant block rental cars coming in or decide who is driving.

If they start to... probably ice starts to melt and many people will be annoyed and start campaign in EU to change this.

If rental cars are ok here then why not to register car rental company in some "tax paradise" and then start to rent out cars to Irish people. Condition are - minimum rental term is 1000 years and you have to pay full car price straight a way. And point in the contract- you have total right to sell your rental car and company dont have any claim power against you :D

OK - have to run now- i ll be back...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-November-2008 at 17:57

Originally posted by Maniac Maniac wrote:

If rental cars are ok here then why not to register car rental company in some "tax paradise" and then start to rent out cars to Irish people. Condition are - minimum rental term is 1000 years and you have to pay full car price straight a way. And point in the contract- you have total right to sell your rental car and company dont have any claim power against you :D

Funnily enough, there is a bit of a loophole for rental companies, and has been for years.  The problem is that a rental is defined and if the rental contract doesn't match the definition then its not regarded as a short term rental and therefore the provision doesn't apply.

The "rental" you've described doesn't qualify as a short term rental afaik!

If you want to avoid VRT, buy a van.

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Prev:
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e39 523i SE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-November-2008 at 21:58

Thanks guys to keep on thinking... Please dont surrender! There must be solution!!! We`ll keep up the fight!

Do BMW make any van???  

:)))) Im cut my own hand, but I refuse to molest X5 as van.

And X is out of my budget anyway.

1989 520 asked where im from :D  Lets say- eastern europe. Just in case if I become too interesting for revenue or boys in blue. I know what you think .   We are there psychotic drivers and like to drive while under heavy influence of vodka :))))

Personally I drink once or twice per year, but on the roads... sorry I have bad habits . But im not self destructive and i dont disturb other drivers - I keep on my own line- you guys call it "hard sholder"? And you have it sooooo wide- we have it max 1 meter and have to go half offroad. But good thing is... adrenaline rush.

Just kidding :)

Back to the topic. I plan to buy BMW and not decided yet- from where Im going to buy it. NI/UK prices are more attractive but this registration tax is just not accepted.

Road tax- ok I can handle this- most of the countries use fuel tax to cover expenses, but in Ireland they need extra? Same story with TV license- channel is selling commercials as competitors and getting money from sponsors (tv licence owners). Frustrating!

Its more mental than financial issue. If you tax bigger than 3 litre engine then it becomes health issue when you get a heart attack. Main problem is- back home we dont call cars BMW if they have smaller engine than 2L. You can disagree, but I freak out about idea of having 1.6 or 1.8

Seems I have to go official and make some masterplan and start surfing and calling to the insurance companies and revenue. 1.6 is not a solution!

Friend of mine came with 2007 5 series and he didnt had any glue about taxing and Garda took his car for 2 months... and released after enormous bills...   I dont want to get this experience.

I dont wear seatbelt - I die like a man!

E39 523i
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