Most effective engine mods on E30 M3? |
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therealmccoy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 27-April-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 552 |
Topic: Most effective engine mods on E30 M3? Posted: 06-March-2004 at 10:56 |
It's not true, the E36 M3 engine has no AFM, but a MAF sensor... (yes, I know: also the american version has a MAF sensor. Americans go to the EURO E36 M3 MAF on their american E36 M3 because of the bigger intake size, that brings about 10 HP). Adwo [/QUOTE]Ah, so I was half right then (power) Cheers, James |
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adwo
Senior Member II Joined: 07-November-2003 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 209 |
Posted: 05-March-2004 at 23:38 |
It's not true, the E36 M3 engine has no AFM, but a MAF sensor... (yes, I know: also the american version has a MAF sensor. Americans go to the EURO E36 M3 MAF on their american E36 M3 because of the bigger intake size, that brings about 10 HP). Adwo |
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therealmccoy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 27-April-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 552 |
Posted: 05-March-2004 at 15:50 |
To solve the "flap" problem on the standard AFM, I had heard that an American spec E36 3.0 M3 has no flap, and is interchangeable with the standard. Only makes an estimated 10BHP, but cheeper than the full blown conversion.
Not sure if this is true or not, anyone heard anything else?? James |
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UweM3
Moderator Group Joined: 11-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5445 |
Posted: 05-March-2004 at 15:13 |
Sport EVO:
Inlet Valves 38.5 mm (38 for the rest of the M3 world) Exhaust Valves : Natruim filled Inlet cam: 272 deg Source: BMW Press Bulletin Edited by UweM3 |
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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M3Nally
Really Senior Member II Joined: 28-May-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
Posted: 05-March-2004 at 14:16 |
I am sure i read an old marketing brochure when i had my first Evo2 that the valves were sodium filled for better cooling.
The inlet valves on Sport Evo are larger at 38.5 mm instead of the regular 38mm. I'll see if I can find out how big the Evo2 valves are, unless anyone knows. Sport Evo cam duration is longer at 282 from 264 |
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Posted: 05-March-2004 at 12:25 |
http://www.e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/engine-tech/e34m5_valve/index.htm
This is what has got me thinking - Sport intake valves are bigger - stupid of me to think it would have been the exhaust, but i think it's the exhaust valves that are sodium 'cooled' if you want bigger intakes valves, something's easily available, but against that the throttle bodies, bore and exhaust are already bigger on the Sport so in itself on a non Sport engine p'haps too much for too little still interested to hear if anyone can confirm re bigger Sport valves and sodium??http://www.e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/engine-tech/e34m5_valve/index.htm damn this hyperlink thing - can't work it |
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Posted: 05-March-2004 at 12:11 |
just going back to valve sizes and pirate pete's comment, i thought group a required standard valve sizes which is why bigger ones (which were sodium filled) were homologated on the sport??
anyone know for sure?? |
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John W
Really Senior Member II Joined: 01-November-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 630 |
Posted: 05-March-2004 at 00:42 |
The Split second mass air flow (MAF) conversion was tried by Andy O'Hara. It is the same as the hot film conversion that AMD and others do for 911s. The problem is it cannot be mapped in real time, so I would ignore it.
Put simply, if you want rid of your air flow meter (AFM) go for an alpha-N solution like MoTec and don't bother with MAF solutions like Split Second. |
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UweM3
Moderator Group Joined: 11-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5445 |
Posted: 04-March-2004 at 22:59 |
Andyboy, I have driven an M3 with the Splitsecond kit.
Even if the quality of the kit is second to none I wasn't very impressed with the performance. Just not enough bang for the bucks IMO. you still need a remap to get the full potential out of the MAF. I am sure if Andy O'Hara is reading this topic he can give some first hand expericence as he has owned a kit himself. He replaced it with a real Alpha-N (Motec) here is the link Split Second Edited by UweM3 |
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Andyboy
Banned User Joined: 04-June-2003 Status: Offline Points: 707 |
Posted: 04-March-2004 at 21:42 |
Split second? Who?
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UweM3
Moderator Group Joined: 11-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5445 |
Posted: 04-March-2004 at 21:12 |
pete, how much is your clearance? Can't you machine the pistons to match. I know this is causing some more work,
but belive me it's well worth the effort. |
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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piratepete
Groupie Joined: 10-February-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 71 |
Posted: 04-March-2004 at 20:51 |
Probably being a bit dense here but dont split second manufacture a maff wire kit for the e30m3 priced around £600. Also i believe thaybot evo sports have standard valve sizes. Did not the GPa spec valves also stick with the standard size and if so is there any point in going bigger. ps I have taken off my new 284/276 cams after only 200 miles due to problems of clearence with the skimmed head. And if anybody wants them i can bring them to rockingham for £650.
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PIRATE PETE
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601 |
Posted: 04-March-2004 at 14:38 |
I thought the sodium filled exhaust valves were only fitted to Evo Sport, and they're bigger too
is that right?? |
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M3Nally
Really Senior Member II Joined: 28-May-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
Posted: 04-March-2004 at 09:46 |
Andyboy,
An Air mass meter together with a custom remap could be just what the doctor ordered for those not wanting to spend thousands for a bit of extra oomph and drivability. Personally I'd be happy to just get rid of the chug chug when starting from cold. Sound like a project for your dad then? As for differences between 200 and 215/220, I know the latter had bigger throttle bodies, up from 46mm to 48 mm I think. The 220bhp has more agressive cams and sodium filled valves for better cooling, not sure if they are then same as 215 though. 220 had higher 11;1 comp ratio and with more torque 180lb/ft, so they also ran a higher diff of 3.15;1 from 3.25;1. giving lower revs for more relaxed motorway driving, though for competition the reason would have been for higher top speed I presume! |
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Andyboy
Banned User Joined: 04-June-2003 Status: Offline Points: 707 |
Posted: 04-March-2004 at 09:20 |
So, what are the exact differences between the regular 200 bhp car and the 215 bhp/220 bhp cars? Anybody know what the ECU numbers are on their cars inc SpEvo? (remove the trim panel under the steering column and look up at the ECU. Number begins with 0261)
Thanx! |
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grant w
Really Senior Member II Joined: 26-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 558 |
Posted: 03-March-2004 at 19:53 |
i bought my evo sport AFM with a e34 535i part number from german and swedish for £110 cheaper than the stealers wanted , i only differance is the 535i is mounted the other way up to a e30 m3 ..
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www.redevom3.co.uk 1989 e30 m3 2.5 1996 e36 m3 evo , sold 2002 e46 m3 smg . 1991 Daihatsu 2.8 TD Work Horse Rust Never Sleeps . Tattooed Lady - Bearded Baby - there my family .. |
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Andyboy
Banned User Joined: 04-June-2003 Status: Offline Points: 707 |
Posted: 03-March-2004 at 18:39 |
Thanks John, food for thought. The Motec is pricey though. The main problem with the AFM is that the big alloy flap is a serious detriment to air flow. When my Dad owned AmD (you may have heard of them being a Porsche pilot now....) they did a conversion on the 1983 - 88 911 Carrera 3.2 which had Motronic. It was converted to an air mass meter similar to those used on cars like the E36 where a plastic tube has a heated wire - the more air that goes through, the cooler the wire gets and the ECU takes readings from this. This used to give excellent results - about 10 or 15 bhp from memory. Dad's semi retired now but always up to stuff - a decent air mass meter conversion for the E30 M3 at a fraction of the Motec cost?
By the way, the Sport Evo used the same air flow meter as the E32 730i/735i and the E34 530i/535i should anyone bullsh*t owners into thinking that it's a rare part! (It's an 0280 203 027) |
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lancelotII
Really Senior Member II Joined: 24-November-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 853 |
Posted: 02-March-2004 at 11:37 |
The offset cam setup is probably because on a well designed engine the exhaust should flow about 85% of the inlet. On the s14 it's closer to 120% !!!!!!! hence the reason why the standard exhaust manifold is just about the best, others may make one or two bhp here and there but no significant improvement.
I have the same size cams, and the effect is a little more power higher up the rev range. The downside is a bit less tourque at lower revs. |
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215DMX
Really Senior Member II Joined: 14-May-2003 Location: Croydon Status: Offline Points: 1780 |
Posted: 02-March-2004 at 10:57 |
What's peoples call on cams here, most say keeping the inlet / exhaust staggerd ie like std (or 284/272 etc) is the way to go. How does having equal inlet / exhaust cams ( 284/ 284)affect the engine charaterisics / powerband?
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John W
Really Senior Member II Joined: 01-November-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 630 |
Posted: 01-March-2004 at 18:04 |
I will try to get to Donny if you lot go there. However, my Porsche was designed for driving slowly down the high street looking at birds. They do a twin turbo model with 4 wheel drive which is more directly descended from the Beetle....I hope to have one of those before long.....then I'll race ya!! |
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