E30 M3 with blown /no ngine??

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   Well, both things really - the more I think about it the more I think a hybrid like this could really be something special.

Am not a turbo fan - just don't like them - but even with a naturally aspirated Cosworth (especially with an expensive alloy, big bore block) power might be easier to find for reasonable money than with the S14.

After spending another fantastic weekend hillclimbing at Prescott and admiring some of the ingenuity out there with lawnmower engines attached to wheelbarrows and so forth I'm coming round to your way of thinking - there's a fantastic tradition of specials builders in this country and some of the results are astonishing.

Best one I've seen lately is a clubmans car using a BDX (basically a big capacity BDA with a turbo), with no radiator (!), and a tiny compressor from a helicopter rigged up to the turbo to keep it spinning (to avoid lag).  The driver's helpers would line the car up on the line rather than the driver positioning it as the time it can run with no rad is very marginal.  The they'd start the compressor - very surreal sound that eventually disappeared as it went beyond the human range of hearing (dogs were barking for miles...) - then they'd start her up and he's be off like a shot before the whole thing went bang.  Truly amazing.  They guy who put the whole thing together once ran a Morris Minor with a monster Rover V8 that was very famous at the time.  It's amazing what can be achieved.

As for the steering, as I said i really believe with the backup that's out there in the tuning market these days I think a really good job is on and a lot of folks might decide that they want to do it too...

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Jonners Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601	Topic: E30 M3 with blown /no ngine?? Posted: 05-April-2004 at 17:32
	Well, both things really - the more I think about it the more I think a hybrid like this could really be something special. Am not a turbo fan - just don't like them - but even with a naturally aspirated Cosworth (especially with an expensive alloy, big bore block) power might be easier to find for reasonable money than with the S14. After spending another fantastic weekend hillclimbing at Prescott and admiring some of the ingenuity out there with lawnmower engines attached to wheelbarrows and so forth I'm coming round to your way of thinking - there's a fantastic tradition of specials builders in this country and some of the results are astonishing. Best one I've seen lately is a clubmans car using a BDX (basically a big capacity BDA with a turbo), with no radiator (!), and a tiny compressor from a helicopter rigged up to the turbo to keep it spinning (to avoid lag). The driver's helpers would line the car up on the line rather than the driver positioning it as the time it can run with no rad is very marginal. The they'd start the compressor - very surreal sound that eventually disappeared as it went beyond the human range of hearing (dogs were barking for miles...) - then they'd start her up and he's be off like a shot before the whole thing went bang. Truly amazing. They guy who put the whole thing together once ran a Morris Minor with a monster Rover V8 that was very famous at the time. It's amazing what can be achieved. As for the steering, as I said i really believe with the backup that's out there in the tuning market these days I think a really good job is on and a lot of folks might decide that they want to do it too...

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Weeksy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25-March-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83	Posted: 05-April-2004 at 15:33
	Jonners, I don't intend cutting the car about at all, and I am 99% sure the gearbox will fit in the tunnel no worries, so the rest should just fall into place. I would like to get the engine as far back as poss,to keep the handling sweet, but ultimately, this is dictated by the position of the gear lever in the hole!! You mean the trusty old T5? Not even a ford box, a proper tough bit of Borg Warner equipment...I will miss having first gear in the wrong place afterwards tho.... Do you mean with the car in general, or the steering rack part of it? regards Scott

Jonners Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601	Posted: 05-April-2004 at 13:51
	Weeksy I take your point about cost - probably the complicated way of doing things too. I think you're on the right track and what you're proposing to do shouldn't be a problem. Excellent choice of gearboxes too. Persevere with the RHD thing - I reckon it's on without too much fuss and with something better than the std 325i rack used by Birds - you'll prove a lot of people wrong and convert a few too I reckon....

Weeksy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25-March-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83	Posted: 05-April-2004 at 09:20
	Jonners, Thanks for that matey, I reckon that would frightfully expensive tho!! rr_ww, a nice machine, but a 6 is too heavy!! I don't think i'm going to need much in the way of custom engineering, the exception being prop, engine and box mounts!! Maybe I'm feeling a bit too optimistic about all this??!

rr_ww Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 04-May-2003 Location: Location Location Status: Offline Points: 971	Posted: 03-April-2004 at 19:38
	Weeksy Got another link for you to have a butchers at. Turbo M3 If you can get hold of them, try speaking to DJM as they were responsible for helping a guy with a Silver M3 put a V8 in it. They do loads of one off custom engineering. Not cheap but very knowledgeable.
	Rich.

Jonners Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 18:02
	think it's working this time

Jonners Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 18:01
	http://www.e30m3performance.com/installs/installs-3/e36rack/index.htm trying again - otherwise just type the above address and click...give it a go

Weeksy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25-March-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 16:35
	Jonners, That kiddie doesn't open matey! Weeksy

Jonners Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 15:20
	oops, deliberate mistake http://www.e30m3performance.com/installs/installs-3/e36rack/index.htm

Jonners Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 15:19
	Even better than a custom rack would be to follow this...

Weeksy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25-March-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 15:00
	Jonners, You are the man, Thanks for all that info, much appreciated sir. Didn't Bird's convert them to RHD back in the day? I think they were based in Middlesex? There were roadtests comparing the M3 (in RHD form) against the Sapphire Cosworth, and the Cosworth Merc 190 2.3 16, and I believe the car was converted by them. It seems to be worth doing to make the most of it all, wouldn't you say? I would like to keep the PAS nonethelsess. Is that feasble? Regards Weeksy

Jonners Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 14:44
	Weeksy The conversion has been done before - as well as the recent thread on here on the subject I saw one at Clayton BMW a few years ago - it's possible that the car referred to in the recent thread is actually the same one that I saw. The point is that one of the chaps who runs Claytons used to rallycross an M3 with a cossie engine - when he gave it up he transfeered the bits into a road car. Claytons are an independent BMW specialist in Bristol and are very friendly and knowledgable - so it might be worth giving them a buzz because i'm sure they'll remember all the little tweeks needed for the conversion - might save you a lot of grief. Their number is 0117 963 1699 - ask for Pete Snowdon. Going back to the steering rack thing, I reckon there's a vital point that people miss when they dismiss the original RHD conversions that were officially carried out over here when the car was new. The components used for the conversion had to be BMW since the converted cars were brand new. Clearly BMW were not prepared to make an RHD M3 rack, but if there had been the freedom to use non-BMW parts, producing a higher ratio rack wouldn't have been that difficult. Nowadays, a lot more stuff is available and I reckon it's worth doing if you want to. And it's not as if that side of things alone is going to annoy the purists given what you are proposing to do....

Weeksy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25-March-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 14:03
	Uwe, I have a Cosworth too, with the 450 bhp Amorgan has just enquired about. I am not a fan of the 3 door sierra, with the tea tray spoiler. I love E30 M3's, think they need more power, and besides , as far as I'm aware, it hasn't been done before!I think it would make a lovely cocktail Are you challenging me sir? Care to lay a wager on it?? Amorgan, It may have to go to finance this project, and make it a proper track machine, As it's a concours machine, I'm looking for about 10 grand for it. 1/4 mile 12.78 last year at the pod Regards Weeksy

amorgan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member I Joined: 08-December-2003 Location: united kingdom Status: Offline Points: 288	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 12:58
	weeksy. thought in an earlier post that you had a 450bhp cosworth. With the m3 you would be starting to build quite a nice collection. how about a audi quattro turbo next. That is prob the only car that could tempt me away from the red beast at the moment.
	am

UweM3 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 11-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5445	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 12:46
	Weeksy, so if the Cossy was so succesful in BTCC, why do you not take one of these then? If it was the better car anyway.... I am looking forward to see this hybrid on track Edited by UweM3
	E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....

Weeksy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25-March-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 12:26
	Jonners, Cheers for that, I knew nothing about the steering side of it all I was aware that they raced in the same class, bot the car had around 350bhp in race trim, but then the RS500 arrived... Both remarkable cars in their own right jonners, I think you will admit. It will be different, much more powerful! I am not going to make it undriveable, and I certainly don't want a dragstrip only monster neither I beleive I can make it a right weapon with thew right suspension set up, wheel tyre package, and brake system. Do you agree? Weeksy

Jonners Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Really Senior Member II Joined: 23-September-2003 Status: Offline Points: 601	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 12:10
	On the steering rack front am sure a quick rack for the 325i is available these days from TAS. Or you could try Gustave's conversion using RHD E36 rack. Agree with Uwe - it's all very well saying that the Cossies were quicker, but they were in a different capacity class. Turbos weren't banned in the BTCC, a new, single class at 2 litres was introduced which wasn't ideal for the M3 either. And don't forget that in the World Touring Car Championship (only lasted one year) the M3 won one of the rounds outright, which was remarkable. Due respect to the Cossies tho but for me being turbocharged makes it a different sort of car. You need slicks etc to make use of the monster tuneability otherwise all you have is a mental dragster thing. But on the other hand the Cossie engine does offer serious power at reasonable cost....swings and roundabouts...

Weeksy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 25-March-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 11:54
	Uwe, We drive on the left here tho!! Is a RHD steering rack not so good then?? All the sweet mechanicals and bodwork, only the engine and box non BMW!! The best touring car bit is debatable sir, I have to say. The COsworths cleaned up so well, that the BTCC banned turbochargers!! A victim of it's own success wouldn't you say?? If I am compromising the spec that much, would you be up for cahllenging the finished article on a track day??!! Weeksy

UweM3 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 11-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5445	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 11:25
	weeksy, it is getting worse with you! On top of that hairdryer powered FORD lump comes a RHD 10 turn lock to lock conversion Please tell me what will be left from the spirit of the best touring car in the world after all that?????????? one more and another one (not to be taken too serious......just a bit) Edited by UweM3
	E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....

cecotto147 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member II Joined: 16-February-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 189	Posted: 02-April-2004 at 10:27
	Weeksy, there was in autotrader in colchester last week for 3500. Been advertised in bmw car a while ago, same number, and been in autotrader for three weeks so it may still be available. Was going to do the same with it as you are planning and flog the other bits off to fund it but blown minker requiring two turbo's and �500-00 excess on insurance for respray on m3 following naughty people keying it and the fact that insurance will not pay out for a rear spolier which won't paint has distracted funds somewhat. I will try and find the ad Edited to remove objectionable language, please read the forum guidelines Edited by Nigel