CONCOURS OR CLASSIC ?

Having attended Gaydon today and seen all the different classes of vehicles entered for the Concours competition what are everyones views on the following

1) vehicles entered under 10 years old

2) vehicles entered which have had full resprays

I appreciate this toppic may have been discussed before but maybe it needs to be discussed regularly to determine the rules used by the judges as required by the particiapnts.

I must say it was dissapointing to see so few vehicles in the concours for a National event, are you not proud of your vehicles and want to show them ?

i think original cars should only be entered in a concours class,anyone can spend money on a respray and making it perfect, but as it leaves the factory is best.

       tony

It is good to hear your early resonses and with differing views, I guess if you have a vehicle which is original you are more inclined to err on the side of originality, if you have spent out on a rebuild then you have to justify the argument for being allowed to enter a concours as an original  classic vehicle as opposed to a modified/reconditioned one.

It was dissapointing to hear about the entrants for the show and shine, I guess if there were enough of a particular group who "pooled" their votes for a particular vehicle then yes the outcome would be predictable and it is a shame that you will not enter the competition again, perhaps this should be brought to the attention of the chairman to place an article in the club magazine.

As a former member of the club (I've returned to the Dark-side and gone back to my first love, two-wheeled BMW's), I was pleased to be invited by a friend to attend the event. I enjoyed the day out and saw some great cars but I was stumped by the classifications for the Concours.

Having been fairly active in various single marque clubs over the years there does seem to be a huge variety of what constitutes a 'Concours' entrant. For a marque like BMW it is confused to some extent by the fact that cars are (thankfully) still being produced unlike many that have long since ceased and thereby removing the problem of new versus old. (They are just old or older!)

It seemed very odd to see a 2002 in the same category as a three year old M3.

There will always be a debate over originality but surely part of the reason for concours is these days, preservation? (Go back far enough and you will find that preservation and originality were never a consideration in Concours D'elegance. They were strictly judged on their elegance and modifications were allowed).

There is a place for new(ish) vehicles just as there is for ground-up restorations but there should be a premium for originality both because a genuine car with a certain patina of age is attractive in itself but more as an encouragement to "preserve the breed".

A quick question. If I win the lottery, re-join the club, buy a brand-new E65 750i in time for next year, have it PDI'd and trailered to the show from the nearest dealership to the event on the day, then entered it in the concours and not win the top prize, would I have entered in the spirit of the event?

Concours = In the same condition it left the factory.

Classic = An older car which has been cherished, restored, loved and looked after.

Thats just my view..........

Grahame_Vincent wrote: Concours = In the same condition it left the factory.

Whole can of new worms........

Is that with ageing?

Would a "nut & bolt" restoration be acceptable? (It may be in the 'same condition' but it certainly isn't original).

Would genuine factory "after-market" options that weren't on the car when it left the factory detract?

Does an original feature that is now polished (when originally it wasn't) add or detract?

In my opinion where it's all gone wrong is in trying to achieve National Standards so that cars from one club can compete in national events with others.

It would be better to return to the original spirit of Concours D'elegance - judge entrants on the day on the basis of what in the judges opinion is the best and most elegant car (irrepsective of age, originality or condition, although these may affect the judges private opinion).

It is after-all a matter of opinion and opinions are subjective. It's ridiculous to try and set objective rules in something open to so much interpretation.

F30061 wrote: ....... other than the two rebuilt resprayed 3 series show vehicles from Scotland.

 Are you saying that some people go out of their way to produce a "show car"?